11-07-2003, 01:59 AM | #21 | ||||
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
It did not 'suck'
But I do agree that this answered little and asked tons more. Your post has many errors in it though. Quote:
How can you not see this? If you aren't sure whether or not zion is in the matrix, you must really not get any of the movie......won't even go into it more. Just in case you were confused, their ships and stuff aren't in the matrix either - they fly around in the sewers of the city. The whole city of Zion is full of human survivors that have been taken out of the matrix. where have you been? Quote:
Quote:
They need to go to him to get Neo back from the trainstation. Trinity gets out alive because she makes a deal with the Merrovingian to get Neo back - he is a program of his word. And don't you see the connection between the frenchman and all the rogue programs? He protects them. Quote:
They're child is an innocent program that does not hate humans, etc. We were meant to see all this. Of course besides Bop's points being mostly wrong, I agreee that there were a ton of questions left unanswered and more created! Like - Programs suddenly good? Neo has powers in the real world?!!? Oracle: "neo, you get your power from the source.. ... . Oh , well ok then. That makes sense How old is the world really? They are on their 5th matrix, right? How and why is zion rebuilt? Did they supply the new zion people with weopons and ships? I always thought that the ships were left from the war against humans and machines - - but seeing as they were on like the 5th matrix and fifth zion, obviously the machines built them all for them...........question is: WHY? Just stop the cycle and no more problem. Is Neo dead or what? The oracle didn't really know everything at the end? That little program girl changes the sunset for neo, what?? Will there be any more anomalies after neo? And the basic: what happens now? How will zion be rebuilt? With help from machines? How long will they stay at peace? The director guy says "all others who want out will be let out" or something, does he mean people who want out of matrix?? How would they even know they want out?? And where would all the extra humans go? Not that much room in zion - the whole rest of the world is in ruins! Will the machines stop killing humans for energy? I have tons more, but those are just a few from the top of my head.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
||||
11-07-2003, 02:12 AM | #22 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 11-07-2003 at 02:15 AM. |
|||
11-07-2003, 02:16 AM | #23 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 345
|
Quote:
Last edited by thranduil : 11-07-2003 at 02:24 AM. |
|
11-07-2003, 02:24 AM | #24 | |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
Quote:
Zion was just rebuilt by the machines........ If you think about it, many aspects don't make all that much sense. We don't know what happened with the Matrix - one can infer that Agent Smith screwed it all up, so maybe they started a new one anyway? And for the good programs - we don't really know if the oracle is good or what her intentions are.. good programs really introduced in this third films. And the machines at machine city deciding to help neo defeat smith and get peace? I'm assuming he made the deal with the director program.......... But again, programs have feelings? After killing smith, why not just destroy zion? Director implies that unlike humans, he is true to his word....... Just odd.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
|
11-07-2003, 02:26 AM | #25 | |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
Quote:
The parents went to the frenchman because she didn't have a purpose and all programs with no purpose would be deleted. They wanted to save her.......... So I don't think she was part of any environmental protocal.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
|
11-07-2003, 02:32 AM | #26 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 345
|
Quote:
|
|
11-07-2003, 02:39 AM | #27 | |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
Quote:
Which leads to another question: How do programs make children! makes very little sense , but ok.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
|
11-07-2003, 02:39 AM | #28 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 345
|
If trinity had stayed in zion, and never been killed (guessing that neo could even get to machine city) Would Neo still give up in the end and Sacrifice himself to destroy him and the agent smiths. As well as too save the human race. lol. But I say Trinity dying is a very key point to this movie that some people don't realize. If she was still alive I think Neo would keep on fighting and fighting and there would/could be no real end of the battle in the matrix with agent smiths.
|
11-07-2003, 02:40 AM | #29 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Whether all the humans in zion had to be killed and zion actually destroyed - I don't think they ever say. The only thing that I remember them saying in Reloaded - is that all the past Neo's failed in their goal. The goal of Neo was to defeat the machines - but he never did. So did he ever actually succeed in his goal this time? I don't think he did. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now that people are bringing out things - I really will have to watch it again,
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||||
11-07-2003, 02:42 AM | #30 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 345
|
Quote:
but as for your children question, just upgrades of the original progams, but some times they just don't turn out to be any better than the original, therefore I see your point "they have no Purpose" |
|
11-07-2003, 02:42 AM | #31 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-07-2003, 02:45 AM | #32 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 345
|
whos theory of programs having kids sounds the best. Mine or JD's??????????HHHAAAAAA!!
|
11-07-2003, 02:59 AM | #33 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
A child can be a branch off though when say an old program is completely rewritten in a new techology. For instance - desktop application being moved to a web application. It has inherited much the same functionality - but is a much different program. The original program is dead and buried after the new one goes into production.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-07-2003, 03:06 AM | #34 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
In reloaded the director tells neo that Zion has been desroyed four times in the past and then started with 22 (something like that) people that the anomalie chooses (the choosen one, other neo types) to create a new Zion.
Agent smith is not "the anomalie" Maybe by the definition of the word he is a anomalie, but not the anomalie in the matrix - neo was/is. You can infer that smith screws up the matrix - the whole matrix feed being really messed up and the fighting scene with neo - the world looks messed up. Neo also says to the machines that Smith has already taken over and messed up the matrix and he will soon take over the real world too......or something like that. At the end - you don't know if that is a new matrix or what.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
11-07-2003, 03:19 AM | #35 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||||
11-07-2003, 03:26 AM | #36 |
Lord of the Pants
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,382
|
*sigh* Tristan, you missed my points altogether.
If you can be bothered - which I somehow doubt - this thread is a good read on why people thought Zion might be part of the matrix: http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/s...atrix+reloaded (part of the reason people thought zion was still in the matrix was because of neo's powers - which we find out is from the source...that is where the zion speculation comes from.) Part of me wanting to know more about the machines, was secretly hoping that there would be more, that we still hadn'nt seen the bigger picture. Yes, I was aware of the stuff from the first movie, but I think it would have been better if they'd had some trickiness up their sleeves instead of Neo is God. I hoped that Zion and the 'real world' were still part of the matrix, as were the machines, and the real enemy was.... ??? See what I mean? The french scene was completely unnecessary. Why didn't they go with more of the Eyes of the Oracle thing? instead of trinity losing her patience? And I don't care if he's a program of his word, it's still pretty ****ing unbelievable that trin et al just walked out, no problems. I beg to differ on the in-between place: I would like to know more - like I do about the little girl who paints the sky. There's more there -- why didn't they get into it? Last edited by Sheeana : 11-07-2003 at 03:28 AM. |
11-07-2003, 03:40 AM | #37 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
I'll read that thread.....
I was thinking the real world may be like some other matrix, but not part of the matrix........ Yeah- he asks for the eyes of the oracle..... does he mean literally her eyes or figuratively like her cognative ability?? He gives that up so easily - that would have been interesting. edit: oh its "Architect" and not "director" same difference and I agree with you BOP - many things missing.......too much.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
11-07-2003, 10:10 AM | #38 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 345
|
Quote:
|
|
11-07-2003, 10:34 AM | #39 | |||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Anyway, it was entertaining but not what I had hoped for. It seemed that too often the plot was driven by the video game rather than the other way around.
I don't think you can expect an extremely tight plot from a movie like this. The first was great but these two sequels are just mainstream franchise material. Considering this I think it moved along well enough even though the battle scene in the gate were gratuitously long, but then I felt that way about Helm's Deep. It's just a movie standard now. Ever since Independence Day I've been averse to endless action scenes. I was also dissapointed by the music. What happened to the edgy electronica? Instead there is canned movie incidental music. I guess there just isn't much new music that suites the theme.
I will be looking forward to see if there are alternate endings on the DVD. They must have made another beside the Scooby-Doo ending.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|||
11-07-2003, 05:03 PM | #40 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
For the record I think Zion is part of the Matrix and there is another layer of the onion to unpeel. It's a great discussion but I don't have much more to add.
__________________
cya |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Wolf Revolution (Science Fiction) | NoIdeaWhatI'mDoing | Writer's Workshop | 4 | 02-19-2008 07:07 PM |
Theft of Intellectual Property in Hollywood or Guess Who Wrote The Matrix | The Telcontarion | General Messages | 19 | 06-01-2007 06:29 PM |
Will there ever be another revolution in the Western World? | Coney | General Messages | 24 | 11-03-2002 12:31 AM |
How powerful "The One" really is? from the Matrix | shirechild | Entertainment Forum | 46 | 05-03-2002 08:40 PM |
The Matrix and the Star Wars saga | adidas96 | Entertainment Forum | 23 | 04-27-2000 12:31 AM |