Meditation

[Tessar]

Lief, that's not really 'meditation' in my mind--to me that's opening yourself to let 'something else' invade you. I don't think that's a good idea, or a wise practice.

If you're looking to let God fill you, there are better ways than sitting down and hoping he'll send you a telepathic message . Prayer, as I mentioned, is a much safer way of talking to, and listening for, God's will than opening yourself for whatever likes to control you.


EDIT--Cans't thou hear me now?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

can't see tessar's post

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Lief, that's not really 'meditation' in my mind--to me that's opening yourself to let 'something else' invade you. I don't think that's a good idea, or a wise practice.

If you're looking to let God fill you, there are better ways than sitting down and hoping he'll send you a telepathic message . Prayer, as I mentioned, is a much safer way of talking to, and listening for, God's will than opening yourself for whatever likes to control you.

Those practices I described are all called meditation. For Christians too- Richard Foster has a chapter on Meditation in "The Celebration of Discipline." It is well worth reading, in my opinion. Meditation is a means by which the believers followed God in Biblical times, and by which they hear God now.

Prayer is just as potentially risky, in my opinion, as meditation. Through both means, a person is opening him or herself up to the spiritual world. If they are listening, they can hear responses to their prayers that are from the devil, just like they can hear answers from God. I have experienced that myself, so I know it's true. Prayer also can in a perverted form be witchcraft, or conversation with evil spirits. Most means that God uses to communicate to people, Satan can use as well.

Fortunately for believers, there is an answer available. God protects his followers. As he said in scripture, the sheep will recognize the voice of their shepherd.

Therefore we need not fear the spiritual realm, though we should be wary when dealing with it. Too much caution can be a bad thing though, of course, causing a person to throw out what is good.

People that open themselves to demons, thinking that they are meditating, in my opinion really are meditating. Meditation definitely can open the door the spiritual world. I'm certainly not saying it always does, but it can. This can be good or bad.

One thing to note is that people who are possessed by demons don't intend to become so possessed. They don't do it on purpose. They don't purposely "open themselves for something to invade them." They do it, but unintentionally.

[Tessar]

I disagree with some of what you're saying, Lief. I realize we're saying almost the same thing, but I get the feeling that we mean two completely different things by it.

Prayer directed towards God protects you--meditation, in the sense of 'opening oneself', does not protect you, and is infact a letting down of your defences, as is prayer to Satan.

Great Mystics (and I'm sure, normal people) have had Satan attempt to trick them while they are in prayer, but they are protected in their faith and can generally tell almost right away that something is not right.

Now, if we're talking about meditation as in sitting down and clearing one's mind of stress and strain, that's something completely different from what I'm talking about. And I'm not talking about the same feeling of meditation that one gains from prayer--I'm talking about trying to open oneself to 'hear' something from the spiritual realm without prayer. In other words, thinking you can do it by yourself.

THAT in my mind, is not intellegent.

My analogy would be that prayer is like grabing on to a live wire with some kind of protection on your hands that grounds you and helps keep you from getting burned. Opening oneself to anything is like grabbing the live wire bare handed and hoping it wont jolt you.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Prayer directed towards God protects you

This somewhat depends upon the feelings of the one praying. If the person praying really wants to hear one answer, they can trick themselves into thinking they've heard it, or they can become more vulnerable to being tricked when the enemy tries to insert his answer to their prayer.

Originally Posted by Tessar

--meditation, in the sense of 'opening oneself', does not protect you, and is infact a letting down of your defences, as is prayer to Satan.

It depends. Some people who meditate do so to the Lord, expecting a response from the Lord, and they receive it. This is similar to people praying. When someone prays, they do so to the Lord, expecting a response from the Lord, and they receive it. However, the enemy can impersonate the Lord as an "angel of light." Someone praying or someone meditating can receive responses from Satan. Someone who neither prays nor meditates often can be impacted by Satan in even worse ways, because they often aren't paying any real attention to God in the first place (this is a major generalization though, of course).

Originally Posted by Tessar

Great Mystics (and I'm sure, normal people) have had Satan attempt to trick them while they are in prayer, but they are protected in their faith and can generally tell almost right away that something is not right.

Whether they are in prayer or in meditation, Satan does attempt to trick believers.

The issue of protection from the Lord I am a little unsure about. I do know that he protects us. I do know that through him we can receive wonderful protection from demonic bondage or deception. Sometimes his deception can be seen through "almost right away." There have been times for me in the past though where it takes days to get rid of something a demon has touched me with. This usually is because I didn't understand the nature of what I was doing that was wrong, or I didn't understand that a demon was involved. For one thing I struggled with in the path, against a demonic force, it took months before the Lord gave me victory.

Some Born Again Christians can lose sight of their goal completely and slip aside. It has happened before; I can give you examples. In scripture too there are examples of people that have served God mightily and gone astray, or been put under demonic bondage (such as Saul, or some of the Israelites Jesus rescued).

Originally Posted by Tessar

My analogy would be that prayer is like grabing on to a live wire with some kind of protection on your hands that grounds you and helps keep you from getting burned. Opening oneself to anything is like grabbing the live wire bare handed and hoping it wont jolt you.

I'm not talking about "opening oneself to anything." People who go astray think that they are doing right. Some of them really are trying to pray to Jesus, but they get strongly deluded. The will is important in this. If people set their own wills above God's will, they open themselves to demonic influence. If people don't know or apply their privileges or defenses in Christ, if they don't know about demons or don't recognize them when they come, then they too can become exposed to demonic influence. If people don't maintain a close communion with Christ, but allow things to take his place as the most important thing in their lives, they too can open themselves to demonic influence.

There are different ways in which demons can attack the Church. Prayer is not fool-proof. Neither is meditation. However, a humble and sincere heart, devoted to God and in close communion with him, has real strength. Faith has power in Jesus' blood that covers us. Saints are invincible when they have their plumbline to God intact.