06-12-2003, 08:09 AM | #21 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-12-2003, 08:14 AM | #22 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-12-2003 at 08:15 AM. |
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06-12-2003, 08:27 AM | #23 | ||||
Corruptor
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Location: Jozi SA
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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06-12-2003, 09:07 AM | #24 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Do you know that Nixon actually "snuck" out of the White House and talked to peace activists in the middle of the night at the Lincoln Memorial? If it wasn't for Watergate and Nixon's insecurities - he would have gone down as being a great president. It's about time America moves beyond Vietnam. Not every war is a Vietnam - not every foreign policy decision leads to a Vietnam - but it's the rallying cry for the "inaction" group. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-12-2003 at 09:25 AM. |
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06-12-2003, 09:38 AM | #25 | |||||||
Corruptor
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JD - I sent you a PM which is Part 1 of 2, part 1 went through, but 2 was returned 'cos yer PM box is full. I'll send p2 as soon as ye have some space (p1 will probably make more sense then).
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. Last edited by Baby-K : 06-12-2003 at 10:01 AM. |
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06-12-2003, 10:01 AM | #26 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-12-2003 at 10:02 AM. |
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06-12-2003, 10:17 AM | #27 | |||
Corruptor
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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06-12-2003, 10:42 AM | #28 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lyonesse
Posts: 4,547
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Elf Girl--great article! Raised quite a few thoughts...
JD-I think what the article was about was that the flag has very different meanings for different people--it wasn't trying to say that the flag is meaningless. It's just a flag, yes, but it represents the country it belongs to, and thus, as a symbol of that country, can be interpreted in so many different way. It's just people's reactions to their opinion of the country, really. I am quite tempted to get into a debate on the UN right now, but I don't think that's the best idea, not to mention it would probably belong on a different thread.
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
06-12-2003, 12:15 PM | #29 | |
The Original Amazonian Coconut
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Answering no questions, telling no lies.
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Nationalism by definition is...
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I feel, that every country should look out for its interests first and foremost, and that should be the feeling of the people. Second, they should worry themselves with feeding the hungry in other countries, clothing the homeless, and all that. Referring to a previous statement *?* If another nation, or group of nations is a threat *indirect or otherwise* that is an issue of the national security, involving your personal safety. Thus, that country should be takin' care of *so to speak*. The citizens of said threatened nation should be concerned for that "rock" that they were born on. Sheeana, say perhaps, that you are on vacation in ...erm...Australia or something, and NZ is blown to smithereens, would you still look it as "just a rock"? Or would it then be your home? *forgive me if I didn't get exactly what you were saying about not giving a poop for your country, maybe I got that wrong? If I did, explain it to me so that I can understand.* I think the United NAtions should be a seperate thread, because I won't be caught throwing a tantrum in a thread that my tantrum won't get the due attention it deserves.
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Hem, hem |
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06-12-2003, 12:18 PM | #30 | |
Incharge: neighbourhood security
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Location: on my 499th post
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where thou will emmigrate?
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i am nothing. i am a cold stone, which deceives with the light it reflects, giving illusions of warmth. |
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06-12-2003, 12:44 PM | #31 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Sheeana Why? It's just a piece of rock. I just happened to be born in New Zealand because some random events lead to my creation. I don't see how one person being born on one piece of rock as opposed to another means anything. I don't personally see that nationalism is all that important. It's funny because the continents have changed so much over time, and will continue to change. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Sheeana (as usual ). Although I was born in the US, I've never identified with being American. My parents were immigrants and raised me culturally as a Ukrainian. My father regretted coming to the US, my mother did not. I'm ambivalent. I'm here for now, and it's not too bad. Could certainly be worse. I've always thought of nations as a type of gang, myself: an organized body of individuals governed over by a hierarchy of rulers. Governments can be benevolent or despotic. More usually they are some kind of compromise that pleases no one. Found this definition of 'gang' online (edited for brevity, bold text by me): gang n. A group of criminals or hoodlums who band together for mutual protection and profit. A group of adolescents who band together, especially a group of delinquents. Informal. A group of people who associate regularly on a social basis. A group of laborers organized together on one job or under one foreperson. A matched or coordinated set. A pack of wolves or wild dogs. A herd, especially of buffalo or elk. v. ganged, gang·ing, gangs v. intr. To band together as a group or gang. v. tr. To arrange or assemble into a group, as for simultaneous operation or production. To attack as an organized group. Phrasal Verb: gang up To join together in opposition or attack. To act together as a group. [Middle English, band of men, from Old English, journey, and Old Norse -gangr, journey, group (as in thjofagangr, gang of thieves).]
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Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Last edited by Hasty Ent : 06-12-2003 at 12:45 PM. |
06-12-2003, 01:15 PM | #32 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Trapped in the headlights..
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(pretty cool this is the "flag-waving" thread when the UK is about to change the Union Flag ). |
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06-12-2003, 02:06 PM | #33 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
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Countries which declared war on Hitler: Britain, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand- 1939 Countries which didn't declare war on Hitler and wouldn't have until Hitler declared war on them first- USSR, USA- 1941 Who exactly was waiting and waiting?
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-12-2003, 03:48 PM | #34 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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*sun-star, realising it is always a mistake to get involved in these kinds of threads, goes ahead and does it anyway*
So... I prefer to think of myself as patriotic rather than nationalist. I'm not sure if the dictionary definitions support me on this, but I think patriotism is an acceptable pride in and love of your country, while nationalism tips the balance into racism - but maybe that's just in my mind. Certainly there is nothing wrong in loving your country. I love England (and Britain too) partly because it's my home and partly because it's a fantastic country. I'm not going to go on about it (because I think that might be rather un-British ) but it's a great place. I also like the Union Flag - I had one out for the Queen's Jubilee last year (not so keen on the flag of St. George - too many right-wing nationalist connotations), so I can't see anything wrong with flag-waving either. As long as you can see the good in other countries too and most especially the good in people from other countries. That is not, as some people imply, incompatible with patriotism. Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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06-12-2003, 04:12 PM | #35 | |
The Original Amazonian Coconut
Join Date: Jan 2003
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? ? Woooohoooo 600 posts YEAH! Sorry, I get excited easily.
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Hem, hem |
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06-12-2003, 04:25 PM | #36 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-12-2003 at 04:28 PM. |
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06-12-2003, 04:31 PM | #37 |
The Original Amazonian Coconut
Join Date: Jan 2003
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To right JD!
That's all.
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Hem, hem |
06-12-2003, 04:35 PM | #38 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-12-2003, 04:42 PM | #39 | ||
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
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(Also I know this is really nit-picking and pedantic, but it is actually Britain you're referring to and not just England. No reason why anyone here should care, but if you were Scottish you would )
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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06-12-2003, 04:44 PM | #40 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Trapped in the headlights..
Posts: 3,372
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The new flag proposal looks far too stern and serious IMO :/ If they want to give us a flag that represents the people of the UK then they should just embroider a copy of the Eastenders cast |
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