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04-24-2005, 03:34 PM | #21 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Quote:
I believe that the ring permitted to shift a person from one word into another - from seen into unseen and vice versa. So, IMHO, with the ring on his finger and an appropriate spell a nazgul can easily be seen and even pass for a mortal. Perhaps shifting into physical word they even regained normal human sight? Now what happens to a nazgul without the ring? That is the situation we see in LOTR and the Hunt for the Ring. By default the ringwraiths lived in the spirit word. Without the ring they were unable to be seen “ unclad” i.e. without normal (physical) clothes, hoods and masks that they needed “to give shape to their nothingness”. But on the other hand, their bodies were physically existent in the physical world, though invisible. Otherwise how could they wear the clothes, wield weapons and ride horses? That is where I am confused. All this seems contradictory to me. Actually I wonder: can one bump into an unclad and invisible nazgul or will one pass right through? |
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04-24-2005, 03:41 PM | #22 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Sorry,double posting has occured - I removed the copy
Last edited by Gordis : 04-24-2005 at 03:43 PM. |
04-25-2005, 02:16 AM | #23 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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04-25-2005, 03:00 PM | #24 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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04-26-2005, 01:32 PM | #25 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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No, but to me it's logic. IMO it would be better to be living in the physical world, not spirtual world. They could do more phsical harm to their enemies, yet they were always Nazgûl, in the spiritulal world. I'll search for a quote, but I doubt there'll be anything. if there is it's most likely to be in the Letters.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
04-26-2005, 02:22 PM | #26 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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I think there is no quote, unless really something from the Letters or HOME 12 which I have not.
I agree that logically it is better for a nazgul to be in a physical word. But are you sure they could not remain in it while they had their rings? In SA we know practically nothing about their actions, as well as in TA till 1300. Perhaps they just blended into humankind? If you change your address say every 200 years, nobody will suspect you to be deathless, especially if you have a visible body. And it is a fact that nobody suspected the King of Angmar to be a nazgul for a very long time. Perhaps only the fact that he lived and ruled far too long even for one of numenorean descent triggered some doubts. |
04-26-2005, 02:30 PM | #27 | |
Elf Lord
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well who would have thought that a ring wraith would become an Elven warrior? Even if he does like picking flowers? Congratulations by the wey |
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04-26-2005, 02:35 PM | #28 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Well when he was ruling Angmar it wasn't so much of a worry. They still needed rid of him and his kingdom.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
04-26-2005, 03:25 PM | #29 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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And don’t you know that ringwraiths love flowers? I mean beautiful luminous pale flowers from the Morgul Vale? Quote:
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04-26-2005, 05:01 PM | #30 | |
Elf Lord
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Gordis:
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well Elven warrior is a bit of a turn-up for a bumbling forgetful landlord type like Butterbeer for sure, but hey! the pay's good and the girls like the sword and tall tales of derring-do. well, yeah luminous pale flowers from the Morgul Vales! for sure and maybe just a few snowdrops or daffodils in spring when none of the other Nazgul are watching eh? legend has it that the secret gardens of Angmar were the wonder of the horticultural North: This is by way of being my take on the Nazgul being free from Sauron for the majority of the TA! i.e pretty much yes. |
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04-26-2005, 05:41 PM | #31 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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04-27-2005, 12:04 PM | #32 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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04-27-2005, 06:36 PM | #33 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Then why do you think that Rhudaurians considered the Angmar King evil? To them he was perhaps quite nice. All is relative, you know. Of course, if you read Arthedain chronicles, you will learn that Angmar was an evil land with evil orcs and evil men (and also evil women and evil dogs and evil cats and evil horses and evil chickens) |
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04-28-2005, 01:27 PM | #34 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Yet men fought for Sauron at the end of the third age and the WK was leading the battle then.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
04-28-2005, 03:46 PM | #35 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Rhudaurians would have allied themselves with Cardolan or with Arthedain if they knew the truth about the Angmar king. |
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04-28-2005, 04:21 PM | #36 | |
Elf Lord
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04-28-2005, 04:26 PM | #37 | |
The Intermittent One
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04-28-2005, 04:35 PM | #38 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Quote:
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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04-28-2005, 05:10 PM | #39 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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And what has happened to them? They were assimilated by Angmar in less than 100 years. The King lost his throne. Had he known who he was dealing with, The King of Rhudaur would have been able to forsee his fate and would not agree to the alliance.
As for horticulture, there may be more to it than just fun . I have to think on it. |
04-28-2005, 05:52 PM | #40 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Interesting thread
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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