03-16-2005, 03:02 PM | #21 |
Elf Lord
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Frode didn't succumb to the ring's influence until he was at the very heart of mount doom. The ring's power increased exponentially as it was brought closer to the place where it was forged.
At that point there probably wasn't anyone on middle earth who could have resisted the ring's influence. Except maybe Bombadil.
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03-16-2005, 04:24 PM | #22 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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You say maybe. Don't you think Bombadil could have resisted the ring inside Mt. Doom, or at the foot of it?
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03-16-2005, 04:31 PM | #23 |
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Probably at the foot of the mountain.
Inside at the forge, I'm not sure. From what I understand it would be like having the entire will of Morgoth directed into your brain...
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
03-16-2005, 09:27 PM | #24 |
Elf Lord
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No, it’s all hearsay. The Ring did not betray Isildur.The situation was quite different .The great warrior was not trying to escape, jumping in the water, but in desperation sacrificed his life trying to HIDE the Ring using the best available at present situation source -the deep waters of Anduin.
Who can say with certainty that the Ring betrayed Isildur? Somebody, who stayed nearby. And since Elrond was so certain, it must be him, who saw the whole incident. Did he have a good reason to be there? Yes, an extremely good reason! Let's look at broader picture. Who would be not interested in Isildur's wielding of the Ring? Definitely, not Sauron, who at present time was licking his wounds. Besides it wouldn’t be bad , while recuperating, to get another King-nazgul at your service. But the Elves… Should I tell you, or somebody else will make an educated deductions? I’ll give a few clues. What about was the talk on the plateau of Gorgoroth ? And what the elves would lose with Isildur’s gaining of the Ring? Last edited by Olmer : 04-03-2005 at 02:20 PM. |
03-17-2005, 11:19 AM | #25 | |
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Interseting view Olmer, never thought about it that way.
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03-19-2005, 03:12 PM | #26 | |
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03-19-2005, 07:25 PM | #27 | |||
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Olmer your theories are creative at least. Maybe you're thinking of the one guy who survived who brought the shards of Narsil to Imladris (name escapes me). He was a Man though. How can you think Elrond was an evil conspirator? As Attalus pointed out, he wasn't there anyway. But this is Elrond we're talking about! One of the Wise, as kind as summer... I think you could safely say that all Elves and all being of Middle-earth would lose if the Ring was not destroyed. That was the only way to guarantee Sauron would not regain it. That was Elrond's goal, not to gain it for himself. He didn't say, "Give it to me so I can destroy it," he said, "Destroy it Isildur."
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03-19-2005, 10:38 PM | #28 | |||
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Elrond could say anything to make this heroic warrior looking greedy and less noble, because no credible eyewitness left, save Elrond himself, but even in his careful built up story the truth slips out:Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond and Cirdan ( Silmarills) And, if Estelmo was really telling the exact words of the King at the last minutes of his life, than the terrible truth is suddenly coming out:” My pride has fallen. It should go to the Keepers of the Three..” (UT) Notice, he is not saying what should be done to the Ring, like “it should be destroyed”, he says who should HAVE it, which means that the arguments on the slopes of Orodruin was NOT about elimination of the Ring, but about WHO has more rights to keep it. Quote:
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03-20-2005, 01:24 AM | #29 |
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why did the ring betray isildur?
its a slippery little ****er
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03-20-2005, 07:44 AM | #30 | |
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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03-20-2005, 11:57 AM | #31 | |
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So, it was only theoretic.
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03-20-2005, 12:44 PM | #32 | |
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the most important abilities of the Ring was DOMINATION and PRESERVATION. Let's look at domination. By refusing to surrender the Ring to the Mighty and Wise, Isildur put himself on the same level and even higher than his ex-allies, who felt that by their right as a Firstborn they have the priority on decision about the Ring. Besides, they were perfectly aware of the fact that eventually they will be subjected to Isildur’s will, and not in the other way around . Not knowing the true power of the Ring, he was not aware that he got a real hold on the mightiest of the Elves, but with time he definitely would come to such realization. Unfortunately too late, Isildur found out about the abilities of the owners of the other Rings of Power to see the carrier of the Ring, even if he is staying invisible.This explains why he did not stay on the battlefield and fight being invisible .After all , with gain of the Ring he saw the hidden Rings, and knew who is that mysterious Keepers of the Three: Cirdan, Elrond and , probably to his unexpected surprise, Galadriel , who was nursing an idea of enhancing her own authority: I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do should the Great Ring come into my hands. (FOTR)Certainly , such perspective of loosing their power could worry the Keepers, and I don’t believe that they didn’t do nothing to prevent such catastrophic outcome. Why the Elves would be interested in preservation of the Ring? The preservation of the Ring was moving an emigration to indefinite time and , while the Ring still exist, with their Rings they can stop the time and preserve things unchanged safely from Eru's wraith , putting the blame on Sauron's cunning devise. |
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03-20-2005, 02:09 PM | #33 | |
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Maybe it thought that the orcs would find it...
P.S. Post 490!!!
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03-20-2005, 04:04 PM | #34 | |||
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Olmer, I don't think preservation was one of the One Ring's abilities, unless you mean self-preservation. Galadriel was tempted by the Ring, but she did everything she could to aid Frodo in the Quest. In the end she resisted the temptation. Elrond, whether he was tempted by the Ring or not, also did everything he could to aid Frodo in the Quest. Actions speak louder than words, or thoughts.
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03-21-2005, 12:55 PM | #35 |
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I agree with Nurv. During the Council both Elrond and Gandalf refused to wield or bear the Ring, as did Galadriel, albeit after being seriously tempted. They would have wished for Isildur to destroy it himself, not for them to destroy it. They knew what the Ring was capable of whereas Isildur didn't know the eextent of what could be done. The Ring would have exploited this in the elves.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
03-22-2005, 07:19 PM | #36 | ||
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Last edited by Gordis : 03-22-2005 at 07:20 PM. |
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03-23-2005, 12:31 PM | #37 | |
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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03-23-2005, 03:04 PM | #38 | |
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Last edited by Gordis : 03-23-2005 at 03:06 PM. |
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03-24-2005, 01:02 AM | #39 | ||
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For 2500 thousand years the ring has been safely "lost" . In mean time Galadriel, a farseeing politician and charming, but cold and calculating intrigant, became the mightiest on the Middle earth, who could summon even such independent and powerful entities as Istari and talk to them on the same level. "I it was who first summoned the White Council“ (FOTR) She was even mightier than Sauron, because she came from generation of such elves as Fingolfin and Feanor, who were strong and confident enough to challenge even Morgoth himself, not to mention balrogs and dragons. Contrary to Sauron, who with lost of his ring was diminishing in his power, Galadriel, with new gaining abilities to wield the Nenya, became even stronger. She arrogantly admits that has no wish to go over Sea: “Here I am mightier" (UT) than if she would be anywhere else. The second attempt to make the Ring to get lost, the ambush at Rauros, unfortunatelly went "belly up" because of Boromir. She totally lost control over the situation after the Ringbearers entered the vicinity of Mordor, and had to accept inevitable. Quote:
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03-24-2005, 05:43 AM | #40 | ||
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