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08-14-2001, 11:40 PM | #21 |
Retired Ent
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I read it some years ago. It's basically just a collection of poetry, and is on the silly side. Not a "must-have."
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08-15-2001, 01:28 AM | #22 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Chigago, IL
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Whatever he is....I would say he is no Elf, Dwarf or even Ent. Gandalf said that Treebeard was the "eldest of all living creatures". So if Tom was "First" it would seem to indicate that he is more than a "living creature", a spirit like the Valar, Maiar or something similar.
If I HAD to pick..I would say Vala... he and Goldberry remind me of lesser forms of Yavanna and Ulmo (genders reversed of course). As for him being Iluvatar.......to paraphrase Dennis Miller...I just know God wouldn't dress like that! HeHe
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"Say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest." Feanor |
08-15-2001, 09:52 AM | #23 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arcadia, CA
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Bombadil really reminds me of Tulkas or Lorien, and Goldberry his spouse (what was her name again?). Don't know why. I know it's not consistent since Bombadil didn't have any great powers like Tulkas' power and speed and the Valar sit in their land watching the world like a TV show.
Nah, I think Tolkien wanted to write something about him but got sick of it. Always happens to me when I write. |
08-15-2001, 03:12 PM | #24 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I made a post just now, but I deleted it as I think (forgive me if this sounds terribly snobbish) it would hurt the poll.
Tulkas' spouse was Nessa, and Irmo's (or Lorien's) was Este.
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08-15-2001, 06:19 PM | #25 | |
Mootis per forum
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Quote:
Tom is dead. That's why he can command the wight, that's why the Ring has no effect on him... But not all the dead are FIRST (though most of them are prior to the living creature). Only one can be the FIRST, and that is Finwe, who has returned to ME from the Halls of Mandos. But why don't he help Frodo: he had reasons to hate Melkor and his followers. Because he wants to await his hour, he wants to await till Melkor come gain to defeat him personally. All is in the second prophecy of Mandos. Some versions said that Finwe would defeat Melkor in the last battle, the Dagorlad. okey, I don't really believe it But i wanted so see if something new could be said about this topic (and also resolve the question of Turin/Finwe problem in the Dagorlad )
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08-15-2001, 07:55 PM | #26 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: May 2001
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I read an interesting theory once that Bombadil was Tolkien in Middle Earth (that would explain the whole first thing).
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08-15-2001, 11:09 PM | #27 |
Elf Lord
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I agree that Tom cannot be a living thing (Tom eldest in Time and witnessed first acorn + Treebeard oldest living thing = Tom is not a living thing), but I cannot agree that he is dead (i.e., a wraith). 'Spirit' I think would be nearer.
Finwë was not the first Elf to die, he was the first Elf to be slain in Aman. The first to die in Aman was M*riel (his first wife) and the first Elf to die is not recorded. What is this about 'Turin/Finwe in the Dagorlad'? Have I missed something? I know about the legend of Turin in the Last Battle (which was abandoned), but I haven't heard about Finwë -- and Dagorlad='Battleplain', it can be found on the LOTR map NW of Mordor.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
08-16-2001, 12:57 AM | #28 |
Hobbit
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Tom = wraith???
A major problem with Tom being a wraith (dead) is that I don't see how you can die without being alive in the first place.
Also being a wraith would not explain why the One Ring had no effect on him....the less powerful nine rings of mortal men seem to have quite an effect on the Nazgul and they are wraiths....
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"Say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest." Feanor |
08-16-2001, 10:19 AM | #29 |
Mootis per forum
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Inoldonil : sorry, i meant the Dagorath (the final battle, as you guessed), but i was wrong about the two versions: in one appeared Turin, in the other Fionwe (not Finwe). I'm not sure, but i think that this Fionwe was "the son of Manwe" wich later become Eonwe, the herald of Manwe. Anyway, this project seems to be abandoned by JRRT as you said.
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
08-16-2001, 03:09 PM | #30 |
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I personally believe he's a spirit or a Maia, then again he could be the Witch-King
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08-16-2001, 04:04 PM | #31 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dorset
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Greetings to all...
Hi, I'm new here and haven't researched any subjects thoroughly but I love Tolkien, please teach me! On the subject of Bombadil the theory that he is a visitor in Middle Earth is appealing, Tolkien says that to make a fantasy world convincing there has to be links with this world. Bombadil seems to be a mysterious character who can find you but you can't find him. He knows everything but clearly is not a God. Therefore it seems that he may be a Father Christmas figure! Does anyone know why he was left out of the radio series? He may have been thought unimportant but I think he is a colourful and significant figure. Thats enough waffle from an unimportant, new person. Bye!
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08-17-2001, 10:31 AM | #32 |
Lord of Rain
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Welcome to the board Agburanar
And no one is unimportant here! [edit]Well, maybe Tater and Anduin... Make yourslef at home.
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08-17-2001, 06:52 PM | #33 |
Elf Lord
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One clue is Tom's magic. It revolves around singing. He said of Old Man Willow..."I know his song". I believe Iluvitar's magic had something to do with singing, as well.
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08-17-2001, 11:42 PM | #34 |
Elf Lord
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Fat Middle: I don't think 'Dagorath' is the word you're looking for either. I'm not sure what the Elvish name for the Last Battle is. Certainly Dagor=Battle.
My, my, the new members are pouring in, aren't they? This place is growing fast!
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Falmon -- Dylan |
08-18-2001, 12:48 AM | #35 |
Hobbit
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Last battle = Dagor Dagorath
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"Say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest." Feanor |
08-18-2001, 01:18 AM | #36 |
Elf Lord
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Is it really? Alright, guess I was wrong.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
08-22-2001, 04:39 PM | #37 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dorset
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Back to Bombadil
You mentioned singing, could this be a link with Treebeard's names? If so perhaps Tom Bombadil is a different race entirely, or an ent who has not "grown like his sheep"? If so does he know where the entwives went? Puzzling....
Another thought, where did Beren and Luthien vanish off to? The Silmarillion doesn't say after the defeat of the dwarves. Where did they go? |
08-22-2001, 08:45 PM | #38 |
Elven Warrior
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Beren and Luthien went where all other humans go, which we don't know for sure. Also, was the idea of Dagor Dagorath kept? I know the Turin killing Melkor wasn't.
Last edited by Finmandos12 : 08-22-2001 at 08:47 PM. |
08-22-2001, 08:47 PM | #39 |
Elf Lord
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Location: California
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One Lord of the Rings reader thought there was some connexion between Tom and the Entwives too, but Tolkien denied it. Definitely not an Ent.
Beren and Lúthien lived in Ossiriand, as far as anyone knew until their deaths. As for the Last Battle, I don't know. In late writings as you know, 'Last Battle' was used as a name for the Last Battle of the Wars of Beleriand, but I don't know if that means the old idea was completely abandoned. I think not, because you can still read about Finrod's belief concerning the breaking of the World and Arda Unmarred that will be in the Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
08-22-2001, 09:00 PM | #40 |
Elven Warrior
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I meant when B & L died.
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