What Happened to Radagast???

[durinsbane2244]

wow...draken, that's hilarious... , but! it never says that the blue wizards forsook their quest, nay, it doth declare that they "passed into the east", thus, we cannot assume that they fought for nought, nor that they abandoned the istari, mayhaps they were slaughtered, i always thought they might have been lesser because they didn't have their own colors, or that they were a team, but, another point, they didn't have colors when they came, celeborn made the council, so they had to have been true for a while in order to join up...hehe...a bunny! a bunny! brilliant...

[rohirrim TR]

now we know...the rest of the story.

[Draken]

From what I've heard, durinsbane2244, JRRT was in two minds as to what became of the Blue Wizards. One version was that the support from the East for Sauron would have been so much greater without them - implying they did their job and rallied some sort of resistance to him. The other version is that they set up their own cultish followings, presumably for selfish gain.

Neither option is very amusing though.

[durinsbane2244]

i don't remember exactly where it was i read it...mayhaps in the tolkien companion [big encyclopidia of lotr] or in the HoME, but i found out who the witch king once was, and that kinda dissapointed me, cuz i had this theory that he was one of the blue wizards corrupted and such...but alas, to no avail...

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Draken

From what I've heard, durinsbane2244, JRRT was in two minds as to what became of the Blue Wizards. One version was that the support from the East for Sauron would have been so much greater without them - implying they did their job and rallied some sort of resistance to him. The other version is that they set up their own cultish followings, presumably for selfish gain.

Neither option is very amusing though.

The tale of option one there is one I'd love to hear. But your version was much funnier! I love your sense of humour Draken.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

It never says that the blue wizards forsook their quest, nay, it doth declare that they "passed into the east", thus, we cannot assume that they fought for nought, nor that they abandoned the istari...

Although it does not say for certain that the Blue Wizards forsook their quest does it not say that the only of the Istari to return back to Valinor was Olorin? Wouldn't that mean then that Radagast stayed for his love of the animals and trees? Sauruman stayed, wandering as a prisoner of death? And the blue wizards for one reason or another never returned to Valinor? If that were true then... wouldn't that mean they must have forsaken the quest they undertook?

[Draken]

Cheers Nurv! I'm blushing now!

[durinsbane2244]

forsaken there quest, or died...and didn't saruman get blown away?

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

forsaken there quest, or died...and didn't saruman get blown away?

If the blue wizards had mearley died while attempting to fullfill their quest why would they not be able to go back to Valinor? Something kept the wizards from returning and therefore unless it was against their will,(an action of Saruman or maybe Sauron) then I can't see any other reason the two Blue Wizards would not return to Valinor even in death. Also It does say at the end of Sarumans death that it was like a smoke blow away, but that does not litterally mean that Saruman was blown away into nothingness, the Maiar and Valar were inately formeless so technically Saruman had just returned to his orgigional Maia state and wandered ME forever...

Edit: Also I can't remeber where, perhaps the HoME, but I recall somewhere it stating that there was powerful Sorcerers in the east, aiding the Easterling armies and the others. Perhaps this was the work of the Blue Wizards?

[Radagast The Brown]

I don't have the Letters of Tolkien or The People of Middle Earth to verrify, but I found something interesting from this site:

"The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.(26) Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador.But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir -up rebellion...and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarrayinbg the forces of the East...who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have ...outnumbered the West.

[durinsbane2244]

whoa whoa whoa....did that just name the two unnamed blue wizards? SWEET!!!

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

I don't have the Letters of Tolkien or The People of Middle Earth to verrify, but I found something interesting from this site:
"The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.(26) Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador.But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir -up rebellion...and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarrayinbg the forces of the East...who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have ...outnumbered the West.

However all of this is only speculation, the only thing that can be said for sure of the Blue Wizards is this;

"...But there were others, two dressed in sea-blue...of the Blue little was known in the west [of Middle-earth], and they had no names save Ithryn Luin ‘the Blue Wizards’; for they traveled to the east with CurunÃ*r, but they never returned; and whether they remaine in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they sent; or perished; or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants it is not now known. But none of these chances were impossible to be.â€�

And as I said before I am 99% sure it says somewhere that the only one of the Istari to return to Valinor was Olorin. If that is true does that not mean that the Blue Wizards were either incapacitated or turned from their path like Saruman or Radagast? If they had held true to their mission wouldn't they had been able to return to Valinor? Even if they had been killed attempting their mission they could still return to Valinor as their true formless Maia form!?

[durinsbane2244]

so they're still unnamed...tear...

[Maerbenn]

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

However all of this is only speculation

Do you mean speculation by Professor J.R.R. Tolkien? He wrote the passage Radagast The Brown quoted in 1972, and it was published in The History of Middle-earth volume XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth in 1996.

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

so they're still unnamed...tear...

The first time any names for them (Alatar and Pallando) were published was in Unfinished Tales in 1980.

[durinsbane2244]

than......they are no longer the unnamed two blue wizards...odd...

[Jon S.]

From barrowsdown.com:

Of the other two, we are given far less information. They're given the names Alatar and Pallando in Unfinished Tales, though it's possible that these weren't names, but titles, given due to their lack of names. Because they spent no time in the northwest of Middle-earth, they are not given names there like Gandalf had been given. Together they are referred to as Ithryn Luin, meaning "blue wizards" because they were clad in sea-blue robes.

About Pallando's 'name,' Christopher Tolkien gives us this footnote in Unfinished Tales:

Pallando, despite the spelling, perhaps contains palan "afar", as in palantir and in Pallaran "Far Wanderer," the name of Aldarion's ship.

In The Peoples of Middle-earth, Christopher Tolkien informs us of another note Tolkien made on the blue wizards, this time naming them "Morinehtar and Romestamo." Tolkien gives both of these names meanings: "Darkness-slayer and East-helper."

At Manwë's request for emissaries at a council, Alatar, a Maia of Oromë, was the second (after Curumo) and last to volunteer for the job. Alatar requested that he be able to bring along a friend, Pallando, who was also a Maia of Oromë. Upon the wizards' arrival to Middle-earth, they journeyed with Saruman into the east regions of Middle-earth (of which we know almost nothing). After a thousand years, Saruman returned alone. Tolkien was unsure of what happened to them. His thoughts on the matter are given in Unfinished Tales in a footnote to the 'Istari' chapter:

I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Numenorean range: missionaries to enemy-occupied lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.

Other notes by Tolkien, apparently an earlier conception of the blue wizards, are presented in The Peoples of Middle-earth (as mentioned above). The notes were fairly difficult to make out - the text in brackets is Christopher trying to make out his father's handwriting. Here they are:

The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed) [sic] by Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath mentioning five was letting out a piece of private information.

The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [? dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

These ideas from HoME XII were abandoned, apparently, as we see Tolkien state that "Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful." This 'one' being Gandalf, obviously, meaning Alatar/Pallando weren't successful in whatever they did out there. This statement also negates the theory of there being more than five Istari.

Did Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando go to Valinor? We're not told either way. Of the three, Radagast seems the most likely, but it seems certain that all three would have returned to Valinor at some point, unless they were as naughty as Curumo.

Primary sources:
Unfinished Tales (The Istari chapter)
History of Middle-earth, Volume XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth
The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings (for the accounts of Radagast)

[durinsbane2244]

wow...nice...so, by eastern regions, does that mean past the map we see in the books?

[ElfGal]

Radghast is a curious character...I don't think you can assume anything, but, I believe that he stayed in Arda after WR and left it when Iluvatar didn't need him anymore.

[Jon S.]

"Tune in - turn on - drop out."

Why Radagast was just a hippie before his time.