07-15-2006, 06:47 PM | #21 | |
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I mean, if the One destroyed meant the total loss of the power of the 19, then the powers of the rings were directly connected. It should have been true the other way round as well. Of course, the One was more powerful than all the 19 combined, so SOME power should have remained in it: but was that remnant enough to sustain Sauron's life? |
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07-15-2006, 07:05 PM | #22 | ||
Elven Warrior
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07-15-2006, 07:43 PM | #23 | ||
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07-15-2006, 07:45 PM | #24 | ||||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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So here are my comments on your essay, Jammi.
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The Elves were not adverse to accumulating treasures, not only the Dwarves had such a flaw, hence they made the Seven. Not all Hollin Elves were Calaquendi, (though Celebrimbor himself was), not all "lived in both Worlds and had great powers in the Seen and the Unseen" - hence they made the Nine - to give the Moriquendi elves the same powers as Calaquendi had. Quote:
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BUT, IMO, an elf wearing one of the Nine wouldn't become a wraith, so not a nazgul. Nazgul faded because their lives were unnaturally prolonged, while neither their bodies, nor their fëar were made to endure so long. Probably with the Elves, the 9 Rings would rather prevent natural fading, just as the Three did. After all, ALL the rings were made by Elves and FOR the elves, so the probability of undesirable side-effects was low. Quote:
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I think the Seven and the Nine are very different, though we know very little about them. The only thing they had in common was that they were corrupted. Every Ring had its own name and its own stone - it seems like their powers may have differed even between the rings of the same set . What we do know, is that the rings were called "Seven" and "Nine" even before Sauron distributed them - see the passage in UT "Galadriel and Celeborn". By SA 1695, when Sauron attacked Hollin, the Seven were already distributed by Celebrimbor himself - likely to Eregion Elves. One of the Seven, it is said, Celebrimbor himself gave to Durin, Lord of Moria. The Nine, in contrast, were all kept intact in the House of the Mirdain - so the Nazgul were the first to have them. I suppose, that the Nine were probably meant for the children of the Mirdain, born in Middle Earth. They wouldn't be Calaquendi, like their fathers, so they needed these Rings (keys to the Spirit World) to compensate for that, to have access into the Spirit World. |
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07-15-2006, 10:22 PM | #25 |
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I posted this in the 'what if' thread but it seems to fit here. If Sauron captured a powerful man, say Boromir or Aragorn, and decided he wanted to make them his new Nazgul.....could he take one of the Nine and give it to them subsequently turning them into a wraith? Or, are the Nine tied to the original owners forever?
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07-16-2006, 04:43 AM | #26 | |||||||||
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07-16-2006, 07:10 AM | #27 | |
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07-16-2006, 08:29 AM | #28 | |
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07-16-2006, 11:14 AM | #29 | |
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07-20-2006, 12:27 PM | #30 | |
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07-27-2006, 12:25 PM | #31 | |
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07-27-2006, 12:27 PM | #32 | |
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09-08-2006, 02:08 PM | #33 |
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Something i've just thought of is: Why did both Elrond and Gil-galad refuse Sauron entry into their relms, when they were young, and had never experianced Valinor?
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09-10-2006, 12:52 AM | #34 |
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Sauron was able to control even the 3, which he did not make or touch, because he transferred so much of his power to the 1 to make it so controlling. This has always seemed to me to be quite the gamble even from the perspective of the point in time of the origin of the 1 ("don't put all your eggs in one basket") and one that, of course, Saruron eventually ost.
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09-10-2006, 01:06 AM | #35 |
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Elrond is called the greatest of loremasters; I have no doubt that Gil-galad was rather similar to him in that aspect. They "repulsed" the blasphemy of Sauron's proposal, to recreate paradise, which was a "veiled attack on the gods", as stated by Tolkien in letter #131.
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09-10-2006, 01:29 AM | #36 | |
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09-10-2006, 03:05 AM | #37 |
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Ok, but looking in the Tale of Years, it says that Gil-galad refused to treat with Sauron 300 years before the elves of Eregion began making the Rings of Power. And i wouldn't think that Sauron would tell them what he was planning for them to make until the felt confident in their abilities. But yeah, Galadriel telling Elrond and Gil-galad sounds good. But then, why didn't the elves of Eregion believe her? Where they really that stupid not to trust her?
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09-10-2006, 11:42 AM | #38 |
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Why would they believe this scheming lady?
I am not sure she was too popular among the Noldor in the First and Second Ages. As far as I remember, Thingol refused admittance to Doriath to any who took part in the Rebellion and the resulting Kinslaying. Galadriel, who had taken an active part in the Rebellion, by lies and half truths made her way to Thingol's household, married a kinsman of Thingol and became close to Melian, distancing herself from her not so "diplomatic" kin. Moreover, Galadriel really had nothing definite against Sauron. Many Maiar left Valinor for ME before she was ever born. I think she merely had a "bad feeling" about Annatar, much as she had before about Feanor. She refused Feanor advances long before he did anything bad. Elrond and Gil-Galad trusted her, because they were born long after this Doriath incident. But Celebrimbor and Calaquendi Noldor, who took part in the rebellion themselves, didn't. |
09-10-2006, 11:52 AM | #39 | |
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Galadriel in Lorien and Elrond in Rivendell. |
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09-10-2006, 02:15 PM | #40 | |
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And that's a very good point. The things you learn.
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