10-17-2004, 10:11 AM | #21 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
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I hate it that they had to dumb down a really complex character like Denethor to give in to all the clean up and action footage they added.
He's supposed to be a brilliant anti-hero and all they have him do after his first meeting with Gandalf is to become target practice for his staff every time they meet. It also made the film-Gandalf's character confusing. Wasn't he supposed to be wise? Is that something that wise people do?
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
10-17-2004, 01:55 PM | #22 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Well, I don't know about Gandalf, but I know I've been tempted to whap people violently.
*BoP, the wise* Hiya Arathorn, still floatin' 'round I see.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
10-17-2004, 03:57 PM | #23 |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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I personally didn't like the entire portrayal of Gandalf the White
Though I loved Gandalf the Grey
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" |
10-18-2004, 04:25 PM | #24 | |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
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10-19-2004, 01:39 PM | #25 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Something I really, really hate:
The films have an incomplete plot. It jumps around, skips stuff, and basically has a lot of holes. But, if you point that out, most often people will tell you that you can't just take the films by themselves, you've got to read the books to understand them. Then, when you do read the books and compare them to the films, any negative impressions you may express will get brushed off by saying that 'you can't just compare them to the books, they stand by themselves and you've got to consider them as films'. Which is it, people? Are we supposed to take them with the books, in which case the complete failure as an adaptation of another story becomes apparant? Or are we supposed to take them on their own, purely on their merit as films, in which case there are obvious and repeated mistakes? You can't have it both ways!
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
10-19-2004, 03:23 PM | #26 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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O Insufferable One, we agree!
They are separate works in different idioms and require to be judged within their genre. Comparisons between genres are definitely permitted but suffer from the desire to have cake and eat it!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-19-2004, 03:27 PM | #27 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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I think it can be both. The films are based on the books and carry the same basic plot line and characters as the book but is an adaption, someones interpretation. They stand alone but together if you understand me.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
10-19-2004, 03:29 PM | #28 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Yes. Quite.
The problem I have is with people who jump back and forth at random intervals in a lame attempt to distract from the very real flaws in the LOTR films. The conversation almost always goes like this (Names Changed to Protect Identities): Fan A You know... I saw those LOTR films. I thought they were badly made. Fan BB What? No they weren't! You're just saying that because they were different from the books. If you consider them on their own, they're actually better! Fan A Uh... No. I mean they're actually badly made films. Whether or not they were different from the books, the pacing was bad, the dialogue was stilted, the characters were stupid, and I couldn't follow the plot half the time. Fan BB Oh, oh. In order to really understand the plot and the characters you have to have read the books. They had to leave some things out because books and movies are different. Fan A ... Fan A What? Fan BB Yes. A movie can't fit in as much stuff as a book, so they were forced to leave stuff out. Fan A So they had to cut some parts. Fan BB Yes. Fan A And they picked the parts that would have made sense of the story? Fan BB Yes. Fan A And now you're telling me in order to make sense of this lame film trilogy I've got to go read the books it was based on? Fan BB Yes. Fan A Didn't you say you wanted people to consider the films on their own, and not compare them to the books? Fan BB Yes. Fan A Oh, fine. I'll go read the stupid books. (Time passes) Fan BB So, how's it going? Fan A Man, this Tolkien guy is the best writer I've read in a long time! This story is incredible! Fan BB See! And you know what's going on in the movies now, don't you... Fan A What? Oh, yeah... I guess. Fan BB I told you! And now that you've read the books you realize how great those films were, right? Fan A Well... No. Fan A To be honest, I can't understand why the filmmakers didn't stick to the books more. This stuff is really great, and the changes that were made in the films make them worse than they could have been! Fan BB No, no! Books and Films are different! They had to cut some things because of time! Fan A Even though they added hours and hours of superfluous fluff that had nothing to do with the events of the book and contributed nothing to the plot of the films, thus degrading the entire story? Fan BB Yes. Fan BB Dude, you've got to stop thinking of them in relation to the books, and just look at them as films. Fan A Okay. The pacing was bad, the dialogue was lame sometimes, the characters were stupid, and the plot didn't make sense. Fan BB No! All of that stuff makes sense if you've read the books! Fan A But I /have/ read the books, and you wanted me to look at the films without considering them. I'm just pointing out... Fan BB You've got to read the books to understand what's going on! Fan A But when I do compare the books to the movies it only highlights the stupid mistakes that the filmmakers made, like having fa... Fan BB STOP COMPARING THE BOOKS AND THE MOVIES! Fan A But if I /don't/ compare them, than the films don't make any sense! Fan BB THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THEM! Fan A But when I look at the movies as compared to the books it only makes... Fan BB YOU'RE COMPARING THEM AGAIN! YOU CAN'T DO THAT! Fan A But how am I supposed to make sense... you know what, forget it. *leaves* (A short time later) Fan A Man, those movies are are lame. I like them less every time I watch them. These books are great, though. I wonder where I can find more on this Tolkien guy? Hmm... what's this? The Tolkien Tral... Hmm... Entmoot...
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 10-19-2004 at 04:06 PM. |
10-19-2004, 04:19 PM | #29 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
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The thing that annoyed me most is the:
Release the DVD, wait 6 months release another DVD with more stuff (wash rinse repeat 3 times) THEN Release a BOX SET? wait there is more I am betting in a year or 2 ANOTHE more extended boc set will be released. as to the quality of the films in general I enjoyed them, but then again I saw them BEFORE I read the books *gasp* But I liked the books better!!! |
10-19-2004, 04:20 PM | #30 | |||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-19-2004, 04:41 PM | #31 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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Lol. Wayfarer that was great.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
10-19-2004, 08:29 PM | #32 |
The Infamous Tea Hobbit
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Riding my Attack Llama, CORY!
Posts: 1,162
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Sam bothered me. His charactar was -way- watered down. Twas upsetting, really. Personally, I still love the movies whether or not they butchered some things about the books. The thing that bothers me is the people who refuse to read the books because 'they've seen the movie'. Ack. That's just so...wrong. LAZY PEOPLE.
Oh, and the whole Aragorn-over-the-cliff thing. What? I mean, its just so...ack. But what would have been SO MUCH WORSE, was that Arwen was going to show up and fight at Helms deep, but they cut it. WHAT?! That would have been the end of any Tolkien fan that enjoyed the movies. PJ would have been found dead the next morning. But over all, it wasn't that bad and most of the charactars were casted well (Aragorn mainly, but I like the Faramir dude too, even if his charactar was terribly distorted)
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If I can stop one heart from aching, I shall not live in vain. -Emily Dickinson But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd Never can quite understand The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought By the touch of the Master's hand. Though she be but little, she is fierce! -MSND |
10-20-2004, 05:00 PM | #33 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
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Another character that was truly distorted was Theoden. In the book he was this cool kingly king, you know, everything you would not find in a hollywood king. In the movie however, he is this useless, scared, week guy that cannot lead his people
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10-20-2004, 06:54 PM | #34 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
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Four words: Elves at Helm's Deep. The Aragorn-falling-into-the-River bit irked me, too. And his horse's name is Roheryn!
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
10-21-2004, 03:28 AM | #35 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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Well they can't of had that because Halbarad and the Dunedain bought Roheryn and they didn't show up.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
10-21-2004, 06:05 PM | #36 |
The Infamous Tea Hobbit
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Riding my Attack Llama, CORY!
Posts: 1,162
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Oh, and another little thing was in fort when Aragorn is by Narsil and boromir is there. He looks fat. Aragorn that is. He looks like he needs to lose a few pounds or like he's been drinking too much beer. Heh. Always bothered me.
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If I can stop one heart from aching, I shall not live in vain. -Emily Dickinson But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd Never can quite understand The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought By the touch of the Master's hand. Though she be but little, she is fierce! -MSND |
10-21-2004, 10:56 PM | #37 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 19
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The thing that bothers me the most
How can Return of the King win 11 Oscars when it is incomplete? In order to cut it to ~3 hours, Jackson left parts out. The complete film hasn't been released yet. It seems that Hollywood has lowered it's standards (irony intended).
There's no excuse for waiting this long to release ROTK-EE. |
10-21-2004, 11:40 PM | #38 | |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Quote:
You could try what I'm doing, which is the don't-bother-waiting-for-the-Extended-Edition trick.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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10-22-2004, 03:20 AM | #39 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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I did that for the last two DVD's but I'll be getting this one.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
10-23-2004, 12:57 PM | #40 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
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And another thing, what's with Arwen saving Frodo's butt at the river? She was not even supposed to be there!
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