A Question on Balrogs - Page 2

Arathorn · 02-02-2002, 01:54 AM

Exactly...

KFC, for instance, has tons of wings. But does Col. Sanders fly by flapping a bucket of those?

FrodoFriend · 02-02-2002, 03:13 AM

Yeah! What about buffalo? They have wings, and they don't fly!

LOL, order our new, juicy Balrog wings at Barliman's today!

Arathorn · 02-02-2002, 03:28 AM

Er...come to think of it...whether or not Balrogs have wings...it did fly down the ravine with Gandalf flying behind it on the way down...

Forget my other posts

Radagast · 02-02-2002, 05:15 AM

Facinating! In an attempt to avoid becoming even more unpopular I'm stayign neutral in this.,..or whichever side waves the sharpest weapons!

Laurelyn · 02-02-2002, 10:21 AM

I think Balrogs have wings.
But as for why it didn't fly off the top of Zirak-zigil is:
It had just been battling with Gandalf. Wings or no wings, that Balrog's defeated, and it's going down.

Comic Book Guy · 02-02-2002, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Yes. it did. After the darkness like wings part, FotR clearly states that it has wings.

The Balrog’s wings were metaphorical; it was a shadow in the shape of wings.

Quote:

His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings

Then the infamous statement that states that implies that it had solid wings actually refers to the shadow wings.

Quote:

and its wings were spread from wall to wall

Laurelyn · 02-02-2002, 10:47 AM

Well, comic book guy, I guess you've proven me wrong.

In the movie, though, I haven't seen any definite wings . . . am I just missing them?

Anyways, if the balrog has wings and they are spread from wall to wall, it can hardly flap them enough to fly.

markedel · 02-02-2002, 02:59 PM

The fellowship had wings-thus "FLY you fools"

Laurelyn · 02-02-2002, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by markedel
The fellowship had wings-thus "FLY you fools"

Lol. Wings on their feet . . .

Lightice · 02-02-2002, 07:48 PM

On my opinion, it had wings.
"It's wings were spread from wall to wall"

I'd say, that the Fellowship just first taught, that they were shadows, until they were spread out.
It didn't fly when Gandalf dropped it down, becouse it couldn't. IT couldn't, becouse it fell on it's back, and it had quite enough trouble with fighting with Gandalf in the way down.

Another thing, why I believe, that they had wings is, that balrogs could fly to Morgoth's aid when he was in trouble with Ungoliant, from the vast lands between Angband and place, where Morgoth was in trouble, which seemed to be in far north.

Aragorn · 02-02-2002, 08:02 PM

Exerpt from The Fellowship Of The Ring, Chapter 5, "The Bridge Of Khazad-Dum", Page 345, 1st paragraph, Top of the page:

The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and it suddenly drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm.

luinilwen · 02-02-2002, 09:59 PM

IT HAS GREAT RUDDY EMU WINGS!!! THAT'S WHY IT FALLS!!! *mwahaha*

nb. emu is pronounced "ee-myew" and not "ee-moo"

CardenIAntauraNauco · 02-02-2002, 10:28 PM

The Balrog in the mines of Moria is not the only existing balrog in the Tolkien's writings. There are a many balrogs in the silmarillion none of which are mentioned to have wings. So...yes it is possible that they have wings, but it is equally as possible that they have a giant brooms all over there body.

Elvellon · 02-02-2002, 10:29 PM

….To have or not to have wings….. that is the question!

Arathorn · 02-03-2002, 12:31 AM

New revision on an earlier theory about what may have happened:

Balrog: <Oh Dear, Professor Gandalf's here. Gotta ask about my license or I won't be a full fledged maia> GRRR... Master Gandalf..Master Gandalf...about my flying license...do I get my wings or not?

Gandalf: After all that I taught you, you keep failing. I haven't seen a more inept imbescile in my years as a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Arnor... Once and for all, YOU SHALL NOT...PASS!!!<I'll make him learn yet>

{Gandalf shoves Balrog. Balrog starts falling..)

Balrog: Help Mr Gandalf...what do I do?

Gandalf: Stupid Balrog. FLY YOU FOOL!!!!!!!

Boromir to Aragorn: What's all that about?

orald · 02-03-2002, 12:22 PM

I feel that whatever type of wings he possessed,they weren't operative.maybe he could make them from fire at will,and made him appear more menacing to his enemies?The main reason I feel this,is because Gandalf seems to think, if they make it to the bridge of Khazad- dum,they have a chance.Since it's main purpose,was to serve as way to stop invaders,by destroying it ,makes you think this is what Gandalf intended.This would suggest that Gandalf knew that the Balrog couldn't fly.Has anyone ever heard what Chris Tolkien's theory on the subject is?

Rána Eressëa · 02-03-2002, 12:23 PM

I think they have either semi-wings, which are not "real" wings but "shadow" wings. Phatom, sort of, you might say. Or, they do have real wings, but they can't use them because of physics: the wings are too small for their body size and frame, therefore cannot lift them, which is why the one in Moria falls in the pit.

I believe it's one of these.

Arathorn · 02-03-2002, 12:40 PM

...and so like the dodo, the last of the balrogs went down flapping...

bropous · 02-03-2002, 01:29 PM

The balrog in Moria fell into the chasm because his wings were not facing the right way to create lift to overcome drag, gravity was overcoming thrust, and his pitch and yaw were inconducive to controlled flight. Oh, and plus Gandalf was kicking his teeth in at the time...

Plus, at the top of Silvertine, Gandalf was holding him down and snicker-snagging on him and telling him, "Gonna fly off like a little BABY, balrog? Whatcha say, baby? Gonna fly off like a big chicken?" So the Balrog was shamed into staying and fighting it out. And losing.

FrodoFriend · 02-03-2002, 04:33 PM

Perhaps the Balrog had grown so fat after eating (I presume) a bunch of Dwarves and Orcs that it could no longer lift it's own weight.

02-02-2002, 01:54 AM	#21
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Exactly... KFC, for instance, has tons of wings. But does Col. Sanders fly by flapping a bucket of those? __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-02-2002, 03:13 AM	#22
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Yeah! What about buffalo? They have wings, and they don't fly! LOL, order our new, juicy Balrog wings at Barliman's today! __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

02-02-2002, 03:28 AM	#23
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Er...come to think of it...whether or not Balrogs have wings...it did fly down the ravine with Gandalf flying behind it on the way down... Forget my other posts __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-02-2002, 05:15 AM	#24
Radagast Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Merry old England Posts: 413	Facinating! In an attempt to avoid becoming even more unpopular I'm stayign neutral in this.,..or whichever side waves the sharpest weapons! __________________ Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought.

02-02-2002, 10:21 AM	#25
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	I think Balrogs have wings. But as for why it didn't fly off the top of Zirak-zigil is: It had just been battling with Gandalf. Wings or no wings, that Balrog's defeated, and it's going down. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

02-02-2002, 10:47 AM	#27
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Well, comic book guy, I guess you've proven me wrong. In the movie, though, I haven't seen any definite wings . . . am I just missing them? Anyways, if the balrog has wings and they are spread from wall to wall, it can hardly flap them enough to fly. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

02-02-2002, 02:59 PM	#28
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	The fellowship had wings-thus "FLY you fools" __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-02-2002, 07:48 PM	#30
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	On my opinion, it had wings. "It's wings were spread from wall to wall" I'd say, that the Fellowship just first taught, that they were shadows, until they were spread out. It didn't fly when Gandalf dropped it down, becouse it couldn't. IT couldn't, becouse it fell on it's back, and it had quite enough trouble with fighting with Gandalf in the way down. Another thing, why I believe, that they had wings is, that balrogs could fly to Morgoth's aid when he was in trouble with Ungoliant, from the vast lands between Angband and place, where Morgoth was in trouble, which seemed to be in far north.

02-02-2002, 08:02 PM	#31
Aragorn Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Anywhere but where I should be. Posts: 369	Exerpt from The Fellowship Of The Ring, Chapter 5, "The Bridge Of Khazad-Dum", Page 345, 1st paragraph, Top of the page: The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and it suddenly drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm. __________________ And they carried them to the flatlands But they died along the way And they built up with their bare hands What we still can't do today. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO till the day I die.

02-02-2002, 09:59 PM	#32
luinilwen Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sydney AUSTRALIA Posts: 368	IT HAS GREAT RUDDY EMU WINGS!!! THAT'S WHY IT FALLS!!! mwahaha nb. emu is pronounced "ee-myew" and not "ee-moo"

02-02-2002, 10:28 PM	#33
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	The Balrog in the mines of Moria is not the only existing balrog in the Tolkien's writings. There are a many balrogs in the silmarillion none of which are mentioned to have wings. So...yes it is possible that they have wings, but it is equally as possible that they have a giant brooms all over there body. __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

02-02-2002, 10:29 PM	#34
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	….To have or not to have wings….. that is the question! __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion

02-03-2002, 12:31 AM	#35
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	New revision on an earlier theory about what may have happened: Balrog: <Oh Dear, Professor Gandalf's here. Gotta ask about my license or I won't be a full fledged maia> GRRR... Master Gandalf..Master Gandalf...about my flying license...do I get my wings or not? Gandalf: After all that I taught you, you keep failing. I haven't seen a more inept imbescile in my years as a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Arnor... Once and for all, YOU SHALL NOT...PASS!!!<I'll make him learn yet> {Gandalf shoves Balrog. Balrog starts falling..) Balrog: Help Mr Gandalf...what do I do? Gandalf: Stupid Balrog. FLY YOU FOOL!!!!!!! Boromir to Aragorn: What's all that about? __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-03-2002, 12:22 PM	#36
orald Enting Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 2 blocks from Minas Tirith Posts: 59	I feel that whatever type of wings he possessed,they weren't operative.maybe he could make them from fire at will,and made him appear more menacing to his enemies?The main reason I feel this,is because Gandalf seems to think, if they make it to the bridge of Khazad- dum,they have a chance.Since it's main purpose,was to serve as way to stop invaders,by destroying it ,makes you think this is what Gandalf intended.This would suggest that Gandalf knew that the Balrog couldn't fly.Has anyone ever heard what Chris Tolkien's theory on the subject is?

02-03-2002, 12:23 PM	#37
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I think they have either semi-wings, which are not "real" wings but "shadow" wings. Phatom, sort of, you might say. Or, they do have real wings, but they can't use them because of physics: the wings are too small for their body size and frame, therefore cannot lift them, which is why the one in Moria falls in the pit. I believe it's one of these.

02-03-2002, 12:40 PM	#38
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	...and so like the dodo, the last of the balrogs went down flapping... __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-03-2002, 01:29 PM	#39
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	The balrog in Moria fell into the chasm because his wings were not facing the right way to create lift to overcome drag, gravity was overcoming thrust, and his pitch and yaw were inconducive to controlled flight. Oh, and plus Gandalf was kicking his teeth in at the time... Plus, at the top of Silvertine, Gandalf was holding him down and snicker-snagging on him and telling him, "Gonna fly off like a little BABY, balrog? Whatcha say, baby? Gonna fly off like a big chicken?" So the Balrog was shamed into staying and fighting it out. And losing. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

02-03-2002, 04:33 PM	#40
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Perhaps the Balrog had grown so fat after eating (I presume) a bunch of Dwarves and Orcs that it could no longer lift it's own weight. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A question to ponder	Ælfwine	Middle Earth	13	10-18-2004 02:38 AM
Unofficial Hobbit Question Thread	Yodaman	Lord of the Rings Books	2	06-14-2004 11:35 AM
balrogs	den	Middle Earth	22	10-30-2003 08:10 PM
The nature of Balrogs	Captain Stern	The Silmarillion	17	02-26-2001 10:01 AM
Question for Mr. Jackson	Fat middle	Lord of the Rings Movies	9	07-19-2000 04:36 AM