10-22-2004, 05:54 AM | #21 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Terry Brooks said somewhere (total paraphrase) that "The Sword of Shannarah" (his first novel, written in 1977 IIRC) was a homage to "Lord of the Rings", or that it mirrored it. There's a thread on that somewhere.
I have read all of the books in the Shannarah series, and I love them! It is kind of annoying how high the body count is sometimes, but they're extremely gripping, suspenseful, and well-written. Even though you know 90% of the characters are going to be greusomely killed by unspeakable evil, you can't predict the rest of the plot. I didn't like his "Knight of the Word" book though, the main character pissed me off too much. I like Tolkien better, and I kind of read these two series simultaneously (time-wise). I think I read Tolkien first though. I'm not reading Robert Jordan until I hear he conclusively finishes the series. Tolkien may have been a little ambiguous about some things (1 or 2 Glorfindels, Balrog wings, Tom Bombadil), but at least his books have proper endings. You don't go insane after reading one. I have heard otherwise about Jordan.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
10-22-2004, 11:13 AM | #22 | |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
|
Quote:
I'd say there are more categories than that: Childrens fantasy (which isn't always funny), Humorous fantasy (which isn't always for children), Epic Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, Quasi-fantasy... Tolkien is the best, of course. Because modern authors have all copied him, but none of them had the frame of reference to create something as wonderful as Middle Earth.
__________________
Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
|
10-23-2004, 01:02 PM | #23 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
|
[QUOTE=Wayfarer]I don't think it's as clear cut as that. I can think of at least one example of a humorous, light-hearted fantasy that's set in it's own created universe.[QUOTE]
= Discworld |
12-13-2004, 11:59 AM | #24 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA until I find a way to get to Middle Earth
Posts: 681
|
Some fantasy is better than others, and it is clear that a lot of it was at least inspired by LotR, but most of the fantasy I've read is good. Tolkien is still my favorite, maybe tied with one or two others, but that doesn't make the others bad.
__________________
"...but I love not the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor." "'I would,' said Faramir. And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many. And many indeed saw them and the light that shone about them as they came down from the walls and went hand in hand to the Houses of Healing." |
01-19-2005, 03:38 PM | #25 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
|
I'd really not say that all of the rest is good. Maybe even a little less than most. you can find really bad fantasy if you dig deepintothe unknow ones... beware. But I must admit that you would rather get a bad sci fi than a bad fantasy.
|
01-19-2005, 07:42 PM | #26 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA until I find a way to get to Middle Earth
Posts: 681
|
I didn't actually mean that there was no bad fantasy... of course there is... I just said that I hadn't read any. I try to be careful and avoid them.
__________________
"...but I love not the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor." "'I would,' said Faramir. And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many. And many indeed saw them and the light that shone about them as they came down from the walls and went hand in hand to the Houses of Healing." |
01-20-2005, 04:38 AM | #27 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
|
that's a good idee.
|
02-12-2005, 12:20 PM | #28 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canadian temporarily in USA.
Posts: 55
|
Tolkien and Fantasy
I first read LotR, I think in the 8th grade and liked it, but wasn't real excited about it. Later, in university, it was on the reading list for an upper level english course on fantasy literature, so I got to study it then. The professor of the course has been offering it for over 25 years and he reads LotR every year. I found that both fascinating and a little disturbing. I asked him once if it ever got old for him and he said something like, "No! This course gives me an excuse to read LotR. I read so many other books for other courses [he also teaches medieval lit, intro, etc] that its nice to read something really good for a change." I still don't go back to Tolkien often, but that impressed me. The title of this thread is 'tolkien compared to other writers', not just fantasy writers. This man has been a professor of english for more than 30 years and yet he looks forward to LotR each year, not Chaucer, and not Thomas Mallory (although he's an arthurian scholar).
There is a little book called Fantasists on Fantasy you might find in second hand book stores in which several older fantasy writers, including Tolkien, Leguin, and Lewis, talk about how fantasy works. Several mention LotR and its merits and influence on them. It's a good read. |
03-23-2005, 02:05 PM | #29 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
|
That's so cool. I'd love to attend his classes and also have a valid exuse for rereading Tolkien's works. Right now I'm way too busy reading all the other stuff I still want to.
|
05-18-2005, 01:58 PM | #30 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canadian temporarily in USA.
Posts: 55
|
Taking a little issue with Iron Parrot
Way back there in this thread, Iron Parrot compares LotR with the Alice books. I'm not going to argue that Alice and Tolkien are alike in the least, but, IP states Alice is kiddy fantasy, suggesting fluff. Alice is anything but kid fantasy if you move beyond the surface. Within, it is filled with darkness, loneliness, fear and doubt. A few years back I wrote a grad thesis using the Alice books as my focus and read several psychology papers about how kids reacted to the books. Most kids find them unsettling and frightening. There is at least as much depth in the Alice books as there is in LotR. Sorry, IP, just had to defend one of my favorite sets of books.
|
05-18-2005, 03:23 PM | #31 |
Dúnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
|
I guess the reason I liked The Black Company series so much was because it wasn't a Tolkien derivative.
I tried to read Jordan but gave up after a chapter or two. Never got into Brooks as it seemed too much a rip on Tolkien. I may have to give Elizabeth Moon a try after I work my way through George R.R. Martin.
__________________
"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
05-19-2005, 11:17 PM | #32 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canadian temporarily in USA.
Posts: 55
|
...
Elizabeth Moon is actually quite a good writer, though I haven't read anything by her in about 7 years or more. Her's isn't even close to my kind of fantasy, though. I've only read the Deeds of Paksenarion, and it was quite a departure from Tolkienesque fantasy. So is Martin, but in a different and much more engaging way. They're both much more personal representations of their respective stories. I've never read Glen Cook, but I guess given the amount of talk praising it, I should. Robert Jordan's ep(athet)ic is abysmal and I wish that I could take back the four books of the series I did struggle through and turn than energy toward better books. In fact, despite my enjoyment of epic fantasy, I am turning more increasingly to the single volume stories. Right now, I am rereading several of Guy Gavriel Kay's books. I would highly recommend Tigana, Lions of Al-Rassan, Song for Arbonne and Sailing to Sarantium. All are very different than tolkienesque fantasy and examples of exceptional writing. And, if you need a little tolkien in the mix, Kay helped put together the Silmarillion.
|
06-13-2005, 12:05 PM | #33 | |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
|
Quote:
And Snowdog, would you please give a comment on George R.R. Martin. Are his books as good as I've heard? Because I really want to read it but don't know if it is good or bad fantasy - I keep my distance from bad fantasy. |
|
07-13-2005, 12:10 AM | #34 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canadian temporarily in USA.
Posts: 55
|
yes there are
Alice in Wonderland is actually not the name of the books but it is the name of the Disney movie (which sucks). Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are the names of the two book. Oddly enough, or appropriately so, Lewis Carroll was a professor of logic at Cambridge University and an author of something like 300 books on logic, mathematics, and puzzles. He was a messed up guy. Anyway, his fiction is chock full of logic puzzles, quirky stuff, and just plain unsettling (especially for the time) situations. Everything in the Alice books is intentional and meant to mean something. Whether or not its decipherable is up to the reader. I'm a bit biased in my view of the books because of the attachment I got studying them for a prolongued period of time. They're still well worth reading though.
|
07-17-2005, 07:49 AM | #35 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 727
|
I completely forgot about Through the Looking Glass I actually knew about it, saddly I have to admit that's because of the movie. Thanx for the bit of history on Lewis Carroll, very interesting. You just convinced me that I have to read Alice (though you should know that that's not a difficult thing to do ).
|
08-02-2005, 01:10 PM | #36 | |
Dúnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
|
Quote:
__________________
"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
|
08-02-2005, 01:52 PM | #37 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
grr martin is probably more comparable to king arthur than tolkien-esk fantasy... much more about people and relationships than it is about any grand fantasy theme
that said, he is a very skilled writer, especially in terms of realistic characters... so much so, that the violence and cruelty exhibited by some of his characters might be a bit too much for some... but i don't think he is over-the-top, just maybe too realistic for some i had to read a good few chapters before i got caught up in it... but after a while i was hooked... there are also some hints here and there about how the story might get a bit more fantasy-oriented as it continues (ancient evils, dragons, etc.) so, it's definitely a very good series (so far), if you like arthurian-type legends (with the characters a good bit less noble )
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
08-05-2005, 02:13 PM | #38 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|||
08-05-2005, 02:20 PM | #39 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
i'll say it again, he needs a good editor he respects... i appreciate his books a lot... he really is an entertaining writer... i just can't help thinking how much better his series could have been
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
10-17-2005, 11:09 AM | #40 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canadian temporarily in USA.
Posts: 55
|
I totally agree
You're absolutely right there. Jordan is a good fantasy writer. I just find the books incredibly drawn out. Detail is one thing, but when it's drawn out to the point that you oftn find yourself wondering why you just read 100 pages which you yourself could summarize in one page, there is something wrong with the book. Jordan needs an editor badly. I still think he gets paid by the page.
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Research paper on Tolkien | The Telcontarion | Writer's Workshop | 10 | 12-16-2007 12:04 PM |
Whats on your Bookshelf? | hectorberlioz | General Literature | 135 | 02-12-2007 07:26 PM |
My 10Kth post - Tolkien and a California Girl | Rían | General Messages | 52 | 11-12-2005 10:38 PM |
The Sundering of the Tolkien Fans | Black Breathalizer | Lord of the Rings Movies | 55 | 01-22-2003 01:27 PM |
a little orientation needed | DrFledermaus | The Silmarillion | 9 | 02-12-2001 05:48 AM |