09-10-2002, 03:42 PM | #21 | |||
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09-10-2002, 07:37 PM | #22 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-10-2002, 11:09 PM | #23 | |
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09-11-2002, 01:51 PM | #24 | |
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Oh dear, what a sad story this is. I've only read the excerpt gicen here by Ñólendil, so my comments may be far out of scope. But I can't help but seing this story as a sad example on how difficult, if not impossible, it is for people coming from different cultures like Elves and Men to really understand each other, and to live close together in bliss. Let's also have in mind that these two kindred were not originally meant to live together in ME.
Andreth's feelings are so human. She has suffered many years from love unfulfilled, and during time her sorrow has turned into bitterness, because she didn't understand for what reason Aegnor decided to leave her. Even when Finrod explains to her, she does not manage to think of Aegnor as a victim like herself. She feels rejected, while Aegnor sacrifices himself and his own happiness out of duty and loyalty to his kin. And this story settles Finrod as The Elf in Tolkien's world. Quote:
My 2 (long!) cents.
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09-11-2002, 03:21 PM | #25 | |
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09-11-2002, 03:35 PM | #26 | |
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09-11-2002, 03:43 PM | #27 |
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All Elves when they died went to the Halls of Mandos, there to be judged and then were re-embodied and permitted to return. The only Elf never permitted to leave Mandos was Feanor. If an Elf chose not to return then he did not have to, such as Aegnor chose. If you recall in the Silmarillion, when Finrod died, it implies that he was released rather quickly from Mandos and returned to Valinor. The ban of the Noldor applied only while they lived in Middle-earth.
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09-11-2002, 04:40 PM | #28 | |
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This must be the sentence you are referring to:
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So Aegnor was griefed in ME and wanted to escape. His only option to do so was to be slain, and therefore he would not hold himself back in battle against Melkor. And if he thus could have vengeance, it would be for the better. Still I don't quite understand why he didn't want to return to Valinor. Is there any reason he would feel less lonely with Mandos than in Valinor?
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09-11-2002, 05:51 PM | #29 | |
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09-11-2002, 10:31 PM | #30 |
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Hi, Artanis! Glad to see you join in this thread. This is not one of Tolkien's better-known works, but it is really beautiful. Try to get or borrow a copy of Morgoth's Ring so you can read the whole thing yourself - there is much more than just the section SGH and I have been discussing. The actual Athrabeth itself is about 20 pages, and there are about 40 pages of commentary on it by both JRR and his son Christopher, with lots of good information!
There are also many other goodies in Morgoth's Ring besides this story. I especially like "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar", where you can learn fun things like the elves exchanged silver rings when they became betrothed, then returned them and exchanged gold rings when they were wed (and wore them upon the index finger of the right hand). Also, thank you for your condolences on the 9/11 thread - it REALLY is a comfort to hear kind messages from others around the world.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-12-2002, 01:12 PM | #31 | |
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09-12-2002, 03:59 PM | #32 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-13-2002, 04:41 AM | #33 |
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Those were some very good insights, ladies. It was really interesting reading this thread.
And a fond welcome to you too, RÃ*an. (A bit late I know, but hey ) I've only read Ñólendil's excerpt, but sounds like a very beautiful story. *sigh* Why did HOME have to be divided in so many books? Why, why, why, why?
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09-13-2002, 12:35 PM | #34 | |
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Christopher Tolkien also saw this as an opportunity to make correction to the published Silmarillion. You will find most of that in volumes ten and eleven. I have eight of the twelve and let me tell you, it is some hard reading but so very interesting and beautiful. |
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09-13-2002, 01:57 PM | #35 | ||
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Here's the last couple of paragraphs from the Athrabeth for your enjoyment - if this doesn't get you to run out to your local bookstore and order it, I don't know what will! Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-13-2002, 03:20 PM | #36 |
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Gives ya shivers doesn't it? It was of course Finrod's hope that Elves and Men would be together in the end. His idea was that Men would be the lordly ones and Elves would be where Men were in Arda Marred. A trading of places as it were. That is what he means I think at the end when he says to Andreth, "You are not for Arda" meaning "Arda Marred" "Whereever you go, may you find light. Await us there, my brother and me" "Arda Remade" And of course, Finrod being the insightful fellow that he was, Foresaw Aegnor's, Andreth's and his own deaths. Very thought provoking.
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09-13-2002, 08:48 PM | #37 | |
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It would be interesting to compare sales of HoME before and after the movie (they probably weren't exactly jumping off the shelves before the movie). However much Christopher groused about the movie, I bet his income from book sales has gone up immensely!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-14-2002, 11:14 AM | #38 | |
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*dugs nails in table* No! Can't buy yet! Need.... money still! *resists buying urge* Patience, my preciousssss..... *we'll have it, yesss..... It's indeed tempting RÃ*an. It was a very beautiful paragraph.
So far I've only got BOLT but unfortunatly I havn't gotten around to reading it yet. I was going to try to collect them in order. But reading this makes me wonder whether I wouldn't go for Morgoth's ring right away. *sigh* Decisions, decisions...... I know that nearly every book from HOME has with a different contence but seeing how thin BOLT 1 and 2 are I can't help but wonder why he didn't combined some of the volumes. Oh well.... it probably was so he could retire easily as RÃ*an said. SGH, if you had to compare HOME with the silmarillion and the unfinished tales, which would be the hardest to read? Quote:
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09-14-2002, 02:19 PM | #39 | ||
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09-14-2002, 05:18 PM | #40 | |
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Besides LOTR and the Sil, I have Unfinished Tales and Morgoth's Ring (which I got because I had heard about the Athrabeth), and like them both a lot. I don't know which would be next on my wish list - perhaps War of the Jewels? Would you give me your recommendation, please, SGH? AND ... Just to stay with the thread's topic - The only thing that I don't like about the Athrabeth is the image of Aegnor with his hair standing up! Somewhere Tolkien writes that his hair resembled a flame (his name meant Sharp Flame, or something like that - don't have reference handy) in both color and in that it stood up like a flame! Not a good mental image, IMHO. Oh well, no one's perfect!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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