03-22-2002, 03:53 PM | #21 | |
The Insufferable
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Hmmm... What do you know? There's an online bible...
The exact citation was this: Quote:
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03-22-2002, 09:33 PM | #22 |
Halfwitted
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Entmoot is pink - now I know there is no God! j/k, I am an atheist though.
Reasons? 1 - I have never felt/witnessed/known of anything to indicate the existence of God. 2 - Science and Nature explain everything.
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03-22-2002, 10:02 PM | #23 |
The man
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Ack! New version of the bible! Ack! KJV forever!!!!
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03-23-2002, 02:53 AM | #24 | |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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Quote:
Oh no, FrodoFriend, I keep stealing your words!
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03-23-2002, 03:16 AM | #25 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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03-23-2002, 07:49 AM | #26 |
the Shrike
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As an atheist, part of the reason I chose science over religion is that Religion is rigid, or fixed, whereas science is fluid, a constantly changing paradigm. While I like to imagine the possibilities that exist in this universe and others, I also like to be able ground myself in factual evidence. And as yet, the bible (written by a bunch of male bigots), and religion haven't been able to give this to me. Also, I study anthropology, and while it doesn't necessarily discount religion, they don't really sit well with each other.
* This is my opinion, and you can't change it.
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03-23-2002, 03:51 PM | #27 |
Elven Warrior
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Ahhh...But I don't think that one has to choose between science and religion. I like the scientific system because it works very well for alot of things. But when using it, one has to be careful because there are certain tasks that it cannot be used for. Some things cannot be explained under that thinking system. Some religious types will jump all over that and say the system is junk, but that's not fair either. I don't think there is any one system that can solve everything. But science is a very good one. For some people, religion can help fill in the gaps, but one has to realize that it is a different system...i.e. not scientific. That's ok, as long as the person has actually thought about it.
Personally, I resist any kind of "proof" that comes out of a "holy book". I'm sure there's lots of good stuff in the Bible, the Koran, the Sutras and whatever else, but in the end, they are just books. Words on a page, written by humans. (Btw, select parts of the Bible were reputedly written by women. As too how much they were influenced by the "male bigots" around them, that's anyone's guess ) One has to frame what one reads in the context one's life. Just because someone wrote something down and got lots of people to read it doesn't mean it's the Absolute Truth. That's just too easy. I write stuff down all the time too. |
03-23-2002, 04:36 PM | #28 |
the Shrike
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Yes, well that's why I said I 'chose' one over another. Nobody told me to do this, I chose this course for myself. And personally, to paraphrase Auduril (who is wonderfully fluent in her arguments), science is constantly changing, every minute, there is new information that we can factor into our equations. This is why I think science is better for ME; eventually, there will come a time, when so-called supernatural phenomena will be able to be understood, because the information missing, will be discovered. Again, thanks Auduril, 1000 years ago, we didn't have electricity, and would have been perceived as a miracle; the same with cars, computers, and so on, and so forth. 'Nuff said.
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03-23-2002, 05:17 PM | #29 |
The Insufferable
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I must point out that science and nature cannot explain everything.
Science relies on the belief that things will, in fact, work in a certain way. What we call the 'Law of Gravity' is simply the observation that, when you drop an object, it accelerates at a predictable rate towards the mass with the largest gravitational effect on it. It does not say why that happens. While I am a huge fan of science, you cannot begin to utilize it until you accept that the universe does, in fact, operate under ordered parameters. And you cannot use science to explain why those ordered parameters exist. Nature, well, I must honestly confess that I don't know what you mean by that. Are you referring to the belief that everything is interconnected and dependant on everything else? That's all nice and tidy, but still fails to explain why everything is there in the first place.
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03-23-2002, 05:30 PM | #30 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
"Science is a process of searching for fundamental and universal principles that govern causes and effects in the universe. The process itself is a method of building, testing, and connecting falsifiable models to describe, explain and predict a shared reality. The method includes hypothesis, repeatable experiments and observations, and new hypothesis. The prime criterion in determining the usefulness of a model is the ease with which the model correctly makes predictions or explains phenomena in the shared reality." Science is a constantly shifting paradigm, as according to the definition above. No one way is right, because it could always be proved otherwise. It makes predictions, or observations. That said, one day in the future, we may have the information to better answer questions in the universe. At the moment, it's baby steps, baby steps. Nature is an old fashioned and outmoded argument. It is no longer really valid to said debate. Ecosystems, as well, can be considered bung, because they don't really factor in the human niche. The idea of everything as an equilibrium? Nah! How silly!
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03-23-2002, 05:41 PM | #31 | |
Elven Warrior
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Well, science is like that.
Science does not explain why. Science is only useful if you can make a prediction and test it. It's like one of my profs was giving an example. You can watch the acceleration of a falling object and make predictions on how will it fall and come up with laws to describe the motion. And then you can say that little magic gnomes that we can't see or touch or detect in any way are controlling it according to those rules. But you can't see them. You can't touch them. You have no way of testing whether they are there. So science is useless in the case of your little gnomes. That doesn't mean they aren't there or that they are there. You can't tell with this system, that's all. So I think: for some people, God is the magic gnome that can't be tested with science. It's neat. It's simple. It can't be disproven. And then some people just don't care. The little tennis balls will keep falling to the ground whether its God or little gnomes or the universe just likes it that way (not that we have to anthropomorhosize everything, it's just easier to say it that way) Which is where it disagree with: Quote:
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03-23-2002, 05:50 PM | #32 |
Halfwitted
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How can religion explain why things work they way they do better than science? Sure, you can say God did it - but where did God come from, and how does he do it?
I think science can explain why "parameters" exist. We just haven't discovered it yet. Maybe someday we will.
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03-23-2002, 06:26 PM | #33 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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Quote:
A dieism board could be a non- theist board.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-23-2002, 06:32 PM | #34 |
Hoplite Nomad
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mirrile what doesn't science explain
something supposedly super natural? meaning: how does one tell the difference between the invisible, totally transcendant, non-emprical etc from the imaginary?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
03-23-2002, 06:34 PM | #35 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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Quote:
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-23-2002, 06:36 PM | #36 |
the Shrike
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Well, apologies, if she is a he, and vice versa...
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03-23-2002, 06:39 PM | #37 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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Mirrille I see this now so you don't have to answer to the above
Quote:
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-23-2002, 06:54 PM | #38 | |||||
The Insufferable
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Quote:
Quote:
To return to my arguement, if Science is the search for and study of fundamental governing principles, it sort of follows that there must be fundamental governing princaples. Where do they come from? Quote:
[ Quote:
Christianity, for example, simply says that god made everything to work the way it does. And since it works the way it does, and not some other way, we can describe it and predict what will happen. Science cannot explain why parameters exist. It simply must accept that they do, because if they did not, then science would not work. Quote:
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03-23-2002, 06:59 PM | #39 |
Halfwitted
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Wait - Wayfarer, are you trying to say that science doesn't explain everything, but God does? Or are you saying that some things are just unexplainable, by science or God?
I would say God and science are in the same boat. They can both explain everything except themselves.
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03-23-2002, 07:00 PM | #40 |
Halfwitted
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By the way, science could also explain God, if you think about it.
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