04-12-2006, 03:36 AM | #21 |
of the House of Fëanor
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I challenge you, and your cohort Spock, to cite one good example of some good that the terrorist racist organisation of the Ku Klux Klan has done for this country, or for anyone. Did they distribute free milk to white homeless babies; would that count if that were the one good deed? Is is a good deed if it is only specifically for white, christian, non-homosexual america? One good example. I challenge you. And it has to be good that was done for everyone's benefit, just as the terrorist actions against all the minority groups was harmful to the entire country's growth and collective psyche, the good deed must be beneficial in the same all-encompassing way. Don't forget to brush up on your facts, there, Lief, while you're hunting around for that one good deed. Discover for yourself what kind of organisation the Klan is, and what the facts are about what they have done and what they believe in. Come back to the table armed with some facts, rather than this hunch you have that your buddy Spock is right. You are the one who is so in love with factology!
I know nothing about Hamas, so I am not even trying to go along with yours & Spock's comparison there with Hamas and the Klan, but if Hamas is anything at all like the Ku Klux Klan, then sorry, but there's no good there. Not if the comparison is supposed to be realistic.
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04-12-2006, 06:00 AM | #22 | ||
the Shrike
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04-12-2006, 10:28 AM | #23 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Quote:
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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04-12-2006, 10:30 AM | #24 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Quote:
Confusion is understandable as I didn't use the "quote" option. My reply was in reference to the Klan post directly above it.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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04-12-2006, 10:33 AM | #25 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Quote:
Try not to cloud the issue. What makes a person a Christian, a Buddhist, a Taoist, etc. etc., etc. is not relevant here; or maybe it is but it seems only to lead into philosophy, interpretation of Qur'an, etc. and that wanders very far.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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04-12-2006, 10:36 AM | #26 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-12-2006, 10:39 AM | #27 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Quote:
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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04-12-2006, 10:39 AM | #28 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-12-2006, 10:49 AM | #29 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Quote:
To take a page from your book: "I am not going to debate you on this subject nor any other subject".
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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04-12-2006, 01:23 PM | #30 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-12-2006, 01:25 PM | #31 |
Quasi Evil
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Wait... "what makes a person a Muslim" isnt a valid topic in a thread about Muslims? This place is like a farce sometimes...
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
04-12-2006, 01:29 PM | #32 |
Quasi Evil
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Lotesse,
The KKK certainly did civic deeds because back in the day they were made of all the most powerful people in the community including the politicians. So to increase their popularity they would hold town barbecues and donate money for new fire engines etc. Keep in mind this was all done in an era when the vast majority of the populace was as racist as the Klan. So they saw no evil in lynching a black man then having a pot luck lunch with hooded members of the Klan providing the food. The lKlan WAS the law for quite some time in the deep south. Not an underground organization.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
04-12-2006, 01:32 PM | #33 | |
Elf Lord
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There have been several public cases of this kind. But foreign men who come here are more prone to become fanatics and more prone to be overprotectice towards there female relatives, thus any attempt at breaking free is delt with utmost prejudice. There might not be accurate numbers to present but nevertherless these things occur. |
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04-12-2006, 02:18 PM | #34 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
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Muslim should be capitalized in the thread title Spock! Proper noun, you know.
(end grammar nazi) Quote:
Anyway, I wanted to reply to this at least. I think that terrorism is far less of a threat than the media, and the American administration, would have us believe. The United States, for example, is much more vulnerable to environmental disasters like hurricanes and floods, power shortages, and possibly water shortages than they are to acts of terrorism. I am not saying any of those events are likely to occur, what I am saying is they are more likely, and more threatening (as in, more likely to impact many people) than an act of terrorism is. The fear of terrorists inflates the danger and the fear of where the terrorists might originate. If it is possible there might be a Muslim terrorists, since the perpetrators of 9-11 also happened to be Muslim extremists, this increases the fear of Islam as a whole. This, in turn, contributes to misunderstanding on both sides, and both sides separating each other instead of trying to come to an understanding. I think this occurs on both sides. I am sure there are Muslims that have distorted views of Christianity as well. This is why I think we should put aside fear and assumptions and try to actually learn something about each other. I am not saying you or only a few people in this thread are afraid or making assumptions about Muslims - I think maybe even millions of people do this (to varying degrees). Amazingly, this was supposed to be a quick post, Nurvingiel
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04-12-2006, 03:45 PM | #35 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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*waggles his over-sized rear at BoP*
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 04-12-2006 at 03:48 PM. |
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04-12-2006, 03:53 PM | #36 | |||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-12-2006, 04:02 PM | #37 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(don't ask him about me ... )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-12-2006, 04:18 PM | #38 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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The reason why I asked "what makes a person a Muslim" is this - I wanted to be sure we have our terms straight, or talking is useless.
I think in general, a person is a true Muslim (or a Christian or a Buddhist) when they are old enough to make a rational decision (based on thought and analysis), and HAVE made that decision, that the tenets of the belief are true, and they make a serious attempt to follow them on a daily basis. I know that there's a disconnect when "Christians" are talked about (that's why the (IMO) ridiculous "Hitler was a Christian" comments come up), and I imagine there's a disconnect with Muslims, too. Many people would consider themselves "Christian" if they occasionally wander into a church and think some of the 10 commandments are ok and believe that a god probably exists and their parents called themselves "Christian". But generally when I use the term, I'm talking about a different group - roughly, those that have made a conscious decision, when they are able to do so rationally (i.e., not at the age of 1 or 2), to obey and honor God, based on a belief arrived at in a rational manner that the Bible is true. Now why I asked the question about Muslims is this: I think there are many cultural Muslims around, like there are many cultural Christians around. In countries where being a second-class citizen, or even the death penalty, is the consequence of NOT being a Muslim, I imagine there are many so-called Muslims that aren't REALLY Muslims. IOW, they live in a Muslim country and follow the general laws and even the outward ceremonies, but if pressed, show that they don't hold their scriptures to be the absolute truth - maybe it's just kind of tradition or "spiritual" or something similar. That's why I like to talk about the particular tenets of a belief - because one can't always judge a belief by some of the people that say they hold it. I think you need to judge a belief on its own merits, and also by the people that carry out the tenets of the belief.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-12-2006 at 04:19 PM. |
04-12-2006, 04:34 PM | #39 | |
Quasi Evil
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Clearly but thats not gonna get the politicians reelected. Its a whole lot easier to fear monger about terrorists. Then you make it an 'us against them' situation and voting against you becomes tantamount to being a traitor. You cant do that with an environmental issue.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-12-2006, 06:22 PM | #40 | ||||
Elf Lord
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Accounts about ten major attempted terrorist attacks since 9/11 have been declassified by the United States government. It's clear they haven't given up. They are a very dangerous threat. The reason we haven't experienced another major attack since 9/11 is that the government has been working hard to prevent one. Let us beware of complacency! Quote:
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If my tone there sounded offended, please don't interpret it so. It was unintentional!
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-13-2006 at 02:01 AM. |
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