Blame Fëanor

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

to the tune of 'Oh, Christmas Tree'

Oh Feanor, Oh Feanor,
you are so wicked, evil
you run about,
and mess around
and think not of your actions

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

Hobbits - Lotho S-B/Ted Sandyman

I think Ted Sandyman and Lotho Sackville-Baggins were morons rather than actual bad eggs like Ar-Pharazon, Morgoth, or Fëanor.

I want to see the arguments blaming Fëanor for things that happened before he existed...

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I think Ted Sandyman and Lotho Sackville-Baggins were morons rather than actual bad eggs like Ar-Pharazon, Morgoth, or Fëanor.

I want to see the arguments blaming Fëanor for things that happened before he existed...

yeh, but as far as hobbits go, they were bad

[ItalianLegolas]

yeah, because Hobbits were pretty good people, but of course, Feanor could be blamed for causing them to be evil!

[brownjenkins]

if not for Fëanor all of middle earth, except for the valar and a select few elves, would be under the rule of melkor... he should be thanked, not blamed

he lit the fire under the valar that eventually lead to the defeat of both melkor and sauron... not too shabby

[ItalianLegolas]

it doesn't matter what you say, they'll hate him anyway

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

it doesn't matter what you say, they'll hate him anyway

Well, we will at least tell you how he is most definitely responsible for every problem on ME. And more.

But, let me answer BJ's argument with some wisdom from the magic 8 ball...*shakes it furiously...waits for the bubbles to subside from overshaking* Ah, here we go, "Fëanor stinks like a compost pile." And there you have it, direct from the mouth of the...er...magic 8 ball.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I think Ted Sandyman and Lotho Sackville-Baggins were morons rather than actual bad eggs like Ar-Pharazon, Morgoth, or Fëanor.

I want to see the arguments blaming Fëanor for things that happened before he existed...

You mean you missed my masterpiece! Oh, how horrible! Here's part of it, without smilies:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Hey, does retroactive blame count? I say it does.

This is going to be a hard idea to accept, and totally disbands the idea of free will. If one believes in fate, and I mean completely believes in fate, then it would seem that everything that occurred in the past perhaps did so only to effect what would occur in the future.

From my brand new (second edition ) not health-hazardous copy of the Silm, about Námo Mandos:

This supports the idea that much of free will is an illusion. All of it, indeed, since the rest lies with Eru still.

Few can doubt that much of what happened (we're going to say all ) in the First Age, and after, hinged on Fëanor's actions. Now... since music is often used in the Silmarillion, is it not so that a piece of music often builds up towards a climax? In this case, what comes before also is somewhat dependent upon what occurs after.

Okay. Continuing... I've put far too much thought into this

You're all going to love this one:

Tolkien himself would not have created the Two Trees if not for the Silmarils. Don't you all agree?

So, if not for Fëanor's existence, the Two Trees would not have existed. Likewise, if not for Fëanor and the future Silmarilli, there would have been no need to destroy the Two Trees.

If there had been no need to destroy the Trees, then there would have been no need for Morgoth to be evil.

And if there was no need for Morgoth to be evil, he would not have flouted Ilúvatar.

Now, if we look at this from within the mythos, we have to remember that free will is a tricky thing that might not really exist at all, especially for Elves. In this case, everything seems dependent upon Ilúvatar. Yavanna would probably not have felt the need to create the Two Trees if it wasn't preordained that Fëanor would come. So, following my logic above, Fëanor once again causes Morgoth's rebellion.

[ItalianLegolas]

Thats confusling, but I think I get it... your Blaming feanor again. I hereby ordain that on 1 day out of everymonth, we will be forced to say something nice about Feanor, its only fair since we spit on his grave every day of the month.

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

I hereby ordain that on 1 day out of everymonth, we will be forced to say something nice about Feanor.

Why bother? It'd be better just to keep silent than to lie.

[ItalianLegolas]

fine, 1 day we shall all say nothing about Feanor

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

fine, 1 day we shall all say nothing about Feanor

Ok then. I think I can try to do that. *picks up magic 8 ball and skakes some more* "You are doomed to failure"

[ItalianLegolas]

nevermind then, and why does it have to be a 8 ball?? 2 is a cooler number

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

'Magic 8 Ball' is an American Children's toy, shaped like a Pool ball, you shake it and a little message appears at the window, it's supposed to pretend to predict the future!!

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

if not for Fëanor all of middle earth, except for the valar and a select few elves, would be under the rule of melkor... he should be thanked, not blamed

he lit the fire under the valar that eventually lead to the defeat of both melkor and sauron... not too shabby

A true Fëanorophilic, huh? Good.

I think I can do a bit better than Em here.

Well, I can't argue with you that he lit a fire. Ultimately, however, it was not because of Fëanor that the Valar finally came and destroyed Melkor. That would be the work of Eärendil and specific others. Of course, Eärendil himself could owe his entire existence to Fëanor.

It's hard to say what would have been if not for Fëanor. I don't believe he himself was the only force capable of galvanising the Valar, nor the best, since because of him, it almost didn't happen at all. In fact, a lot of things seem to happen in spite of Fëanor. Had Fingolfin, Finrod, and the others not chosen to cross the ice, the Valar would not have gotten involved either, I hazard to guess. Fëanor almost prevented that from happening.

I can't help but recall someone like Lúthien, the only person ever to move Mandos to tears. Something like that probably had a huge impact upon the final decision of the Valar to help, even if it is not mentioned specifically. It is hard to argue what would have, could have happened, but I think there were at least several figures in Middle Earth itself (Melian, Lúthien, Thingol... as much as I'd hate to admit, and who can say how many Men) who would have been able to appeal to the Valar if not for the Exile.

Then again, something like the Exile might have occurred even without Fëanor. According to one version of the story, Galadriel was planning on leaving Aman herself. Who can say what the results there would have been?

[Embladyne]

And it's a lovely toy...but it's answers are ****. Which I feel fits with the topic of Fëanor and his...mistakes.

BTW...my magic 8 ball has many more than 8 answers...which is precisely why it is magic.

[ItalianLegolas]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

'Magic 8 Ball' is an American Children's toy, shaped like a Pool ball, you shake it and a little message appears at the window, it's supposed to pretend to predict the future!!

I know, but why pick the 8-ball!!

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

I know, but why pick the 8-ball!!

We prolly crossposted....but look above^^^

90 SECOND RULE!! I ARG YOU! I ARG YOU BEYOND ALL IMAGINING OF ARGING!

[ItalianLegolas]

more then 8 answers!!! WOW!! That is magic

[Elemmírë]

Stop spamming my thread!

Come on, we have to prove Fëanor's evil, not that magic 8 balls are annoying!