08-06-2004, 10:11 AM | #21 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hobbiton (I'm really a Hobbit, I just look like a human, and live in the U.S.A. sometimes. However, at night, I sneek out and go to Hobbiton and live with my Hobbit friends. It's sorda wierd that I don't need sleep!)
Posts: 24
|
Quote:
I havn't heard about any of the death threats to scientists, but maybe I'm just missing it? It seems like something I would have run across in the past 7 months, maybe you could link me over to an artical about it?
__________________
I am also known as Samwiselvr2008 PADFOOT LIVES!!! (stolen from Legoles) |
|
08-06-2004, 10:32 AM | #22 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 08-06-2004 at 10:36 AM. |
08-06-2004, 11:34 AM | #23 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hobbiton (I'm really a Hobbit, I just look like a human, and live in the U.S.A. sometimes. However, at night, I sneek out and go to Hobbiton and live with my Hobbit friends. It's sorda wierd that I don't need sleep!)
Posts: 24
|
Thank you for the links Sun-Star (and for welcoming me back)
I didn't get through all of them, link #5 did not work, but I read #4 and 3, and after that I was sorda getting bored of the same basic outline being said. I never noticed what was happening to those places and it's workers. Are most of these in the UK? I live in the US, so that might be why I havn't heard about it. Although I disagree with them on some points, I get a lot of my information from PETA, so maybe that's why I have been missing out on my dose of the other stuff, bucause PETA really dosn't focus on that as much as the other things they target. I dissagree with the violence that has been going on in these places, while some of these labortorees may need to be shut down (I don't know what they were all standing for, that's why I said may), ther is a right and wrong way to do it. These extreemist groups should not attack the labotories the way they do, that's just not right. A man shouldn't have to check under his car for a bomb before getting into it, and the quote that said that a few (10-15) man dieing was worth saving tons of animals, well that's wrong to. I am a Christian, and so while I say no animal abuse, I also stand behind humans and think that God values human life more then animal life, and we should to. If there was a differet way to find cures for sicknesses, and still have no cruelity to any form of life, then I would leen in that dirrection.
__________________
I am also known as Samwiselvr2008 PADFOOT LIVES!!! (stolen from Legoles) |
08-06-2004, 12:39 PM | #24 |
Rohirrim Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 590
|
[QUOTE=sun-star]I actually wasn't weighing the human benefit achieved through scientific testing against animal welfare, I was weighing animal welfare against the behaviour of violent animal rights activists to humans. I'm totally opposed to cosmetics being tested on animals - I don't know anyone who isn't. But I'm also opposed to targetting scientists and their families in the name of animal welfare, which was my point.[QUOTE]
I think that statement is overexagerated. Perhaps you are reffering to an a small faction of extremist/militant group of animal rights activist? I've been to an animal testing protest rally and from what I saw no one was threatening people and their families. And MOST animal rights activist are more concerned with big companies who use animal testing for products, not scientific research. I've met some people other animal right activist and we were all protesting non-violently. |
08-06-2004, 12:43 PM | #25 |
Rohirrim Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 590
|
Link 1 and 5 about animal rights extremist DOES NOT represent the general numbers of animal rights activists, they are a selected handful. That is like saying all Islams are terrorists.
|
08-06-2004, 12:50 PM | #26 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
I didn't say it was representative, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you look back to my other posts, I said I disagreed with violent animal rights activists. Who do exist, and who do seem to value animal life above human life.
I don't see where we differ here.
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
08-06-2004, 01:36 PM | #27 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
08-06-2004, 01:58 PM | #28 |
Rohirrim Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 590
|
Killing animals for food is completely different from abusing animals for products. One could argue that man, since the begining of time, has hunted animals for food, clothing and other uses on the sole basis of survival.
|
08-06-2004, 02:10 PM | #29 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
No, one could not, unless one provides a clear definition of "man". Hominids were most likely scavengers up until Homo erectus. The austrolopithecines were primarily frugivores who subsisted on hard grains, nuts, and fruit.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
08-06-2004, 02:43 PM | #30 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I like how G.K. Chesterton puts it : Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 08-06-2004 at 02:44 PM. |
||
08-06-2004, 03:12 PM | #31 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
that said, i do agree that animals should be treated with an equal, or close to equal, amount of respect as we would treat another human being... if for no other reason than because we can... of course, any advanced med student will tell you that cats are not the only thing they have to dissect Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
||
08-13-2004, 12:20 PM | #33 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
|
Please note that I have split off the off-topic comments in this thread on the splitting of this thread into a thread on splitting threads.
EDIT: It's right HERE!
__________________
My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! Last edited by Valandil : 08-13-2004 at 12:25 PM. |
08-13-2004, 01:12 PM | #34 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
you mods are all mad i tell you... mad!!
not only do you make it look like i started a thread on something as pointless as 'thread splitting'... though i think we may have to speak about just such a topic but you lock it as well!!! Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. Last edited by brownjenkins : 08-13-2004 at 01:13 PM. |
|
08-13-2004, 03:01 PM | #35 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
I vote that you ban bj ... he's been naughty.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
08-13-2004, 03:41 PM | #36 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
bah... just wait till they split you spunky
you mod-types are all the same
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
08-14-2004, 06:27 AM | #37 |
The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
|
Frankly, I have no idea where to post to get a view across. However, the thing which disturbs me about the approach that humans are in no way superior to, or of a greater value than any other animal is what one can then deduce from such a rule.
I apologise for the slightly topical nature of this example, but I feel it only serves to highlight the folly of the suggestion of equality: A man is taken hostage with his dog. The hostage takers could do one of two things; kill the man and release the dog, or kill the dog and release the man. Which do you find more morally reproachable? Surely neither, for the value of man and dog are equal. Now suppose you were in that situation where you must kill either a dog or a human. Which would you do? The argument that if you pose the second problem to a dog it would kill the human on the grounds that it would avoid killing its own kind is also flawed. Surely the dog has no understanding of the situation, the morality, and indeed has no way of communicating the problem to other dogs... unlike one other animal I can think of off hand.
__________________
Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
08-14-2004, 07:49 AM | #38 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hobbiton (I'm really a Hobbit, I just look like a human, and live in the U.S.A. sometimes. However, at night, I sneek out and go to Hobbiton and live with my Hobbit friends. It's sorda wierd that I don't need sleep!)
Posts: 24
|
Quote:
__________________
I am also known as Samwiselvr2008 PADFOOT LIVES!!! (stolen from Legoles) |
|
08-14-2004, 10:05 AM | #39 | |
The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
|
Quote:
__________________
Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
|
08-16-2004, 09:37 PM | #40 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hobbiton (I'm really a Hobbit, I just look like a human, and live in the U.S.A. sometimes. However, at night, I sneek out and go to Hobbiton and live with my Hobbit friends. It's sorda wierd that I don't need sleep!)
Posts: 24
|
Quote:
__________________
I am also known as Samwiselvr2008 PADFOOT LIVES!!! (stolen from Legoles) |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Awesome Animal News! | Lotesse | General Messages | 152 | 06-24-2009 08:25 PM |
Book V; ch IX and X. The Last Debate and The Black Gate Opens | crickhollow | LOTR Discussion Project | 33 | 02-29-2008 10:28 AM |
Animal morality: are humans merely animals? | RÃan | General Messages | 284 | 01-18-2005 04:12 PM |
Insidious, Lief and RÃ*an debate all things great and small. | Lief Erikson | General Messages | 139 | 09-12-2004 01:36 AM |
The Official Entmoot Presidential Debate | Tessar | General Messages | 83 | 03-20-2004 02:47 PM |