The Gift of Death - Page 2

Radagast The Brown · 05-07-2002, 03:01 PM

ahhh.... Glorfindel!!! Legolas (I think).

afro-elf · 05-07-2002, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil

bah..stronger? nay

you forget the calaquendi

afro-elf · 05-07-2002, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
yea but galadriel was born in valinor before the creating of the silmarils..no surprise she had something over men and all elves as well..and anyways thats just two elves...when you can think of more, besides celeborn, tell me

elrond was not born in valinor though you may argue he was 1/2 elven

glorfindel was powerful than most elves there is some about his rebirth that gives him great power see the thread:
why did glorfindel come back to life

The problem with your question is that we do not really encounter too many Noldor in LOTR.

the only NAMED noldor are galadriel, glorfindel and gildor

other named elves COULD have been noldor but the above are definately noldor

also it depends on what type of man i'm quite sure legolas could whoop the men in bree.

from the man himself

I wonder if the following quote might throw some light on the elf/man strength comparison in general and Legolas' abilities in particular
"there was nothing filmy or transparent about the heroic or majestic Eldar of the Third Age of Middle-earth. Long afterwards, my father (Cristopher Tolkien's referring to Ronald - E.G.) would write, in a wrathful comment on a "pretty" or "ladylike" pictorial rendering of Legolas:
He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock and through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship."
The Book of Lost Tales 2, "The History of Eriol or Aelfwine"

Rána Eressëa · 05-07-2002, 04:47 PM

I definitely would have chosen the Gift of Men. The Elves and Valar are confined to the world - Men are allowed to see what lies beyond it.

afro-elf · 05-07-2002, 05:23 PM

no one ever thinks that the gift of death could be total cessation

no pain no sorrow no nothing

to those who suffer this could be a gift

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-07-2002, 08:56 PM

According to the Athrabeth in Morgoth's Ring, the gift from Iluvatar to man was death. However, somehow the gift became tainted by Morgoth, and was no longer a pleasent thing to recieve. This was stated by Andreth to Finrod, but she refused to elaborate further.

Tar-Elendil · 05-07-2002, 09:13 PM

yea, i said galadriel was born in valinor

Radagast The Brown · 05-09-2002, 03:02 PM

Quote:

According to the Athrabeth in Morgoth's Ring, the gift from Iluvatar to man was death. However, somehow the gift became tainted by Morgoth, and was no longer a pleasent thing to recieve. This was stated by Andreth to Finrod, but she refused to elaborate further.

But according to some page in the Sil, Illuvatar knew the men won't be just good and it will work to the evil side too, so he gave them the gift of death for they (the men) won't be confine to the world and work to Morgoth to the end of the world.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-09-2002, 08:12 PM

The Gift of Man was predetemined. This was supposedly something that Illuvatar had decided upon before he created either the "Firstborn", or the "Secondborn" Somewhere, some how, in the early history of Man, according to the "Athrabeth" Men did something wrong that possibly tainted that gift.

Agburanar · 05-10-2002, 10:04 AM

It's a very hard question. Best to be mortal and be released from care, to see the outside world, than to endure forever the suffering the loss of others causes.

Garina · 05-18-2002, 05:27 PM

I don't know. I wouldn't want immortality if the people I loved were mortal, because that would suck.

I think I would actually choose mortality, although I think my judgement is biased by my attatchment to the Queen song - "Who wants to live forever?" Ooh! hang on, have to go mangle.

Agburanar · 05-19-2002, 04:02 PM

That is undoubtably the greatest song in the history of the universe ever.

Tar-Elendil · 05-19-2002, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Agburanar
That is undoubtably the greatest song in the history of the universe ever.

it is clear to me that youve never heard system of a down!

Agburanar · 05-20-2002, 02:13 PM

You are incorrect. I suggest new glasses.

Reumandar · 05-21-2002, 07:04 AM

But when the Elves are killed in battle (or something like that) were do they go is it not the same place as man, when they die
(I'm very new here so if I sound stupid sorry)

Radagast The Brown · 05-21-2002, 02:00 PM

You doesn't sound stupid... don't worry. Welcome!

Yeah. The elves go in their death to Mandos. The man go (I think) out of this land (I think it called Ea). I'm not sure.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-21-2002, 02:20 PM

From the Silmarillion:

Quote:

What may bafall their spirits after death, the Elves know not. Some say that they too go to the Halls of Mandos; but their place of waiting there is not that of the Elves, and Mandos under Iluvatar alone save Manwe knows whither they go after the time of recollection in those silent halss beside the Outer Sea.

afro-elf · 05-21-2002, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
yea, i said galadriel was born in valinor

Yes ... aware of that, the post is just explaining the dearth of named noldor

Ñólendil · 05-25-2002, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Yeah. The elves go in their death to Mandos. The man go (I think) out of this land (I think it called Ea). I'm not sure.

The idea is that they go outside the "Circles of the World" which refer in some way to Eä, the Universe.

Radagast The Brown · 05-25-2002, 05:57 AM

Oh. OK. Understood now.

05-07-2002, 03:01 PM	#21
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	ahhh.... Glorfindel!!! Legolas (I think). __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

05-07-2002, 05:23 PM	#25
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	no one ever thinks that the gift of death could be total cessation no pain no sorrow no nothing to those who suffer this could be a gift __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

05-07-2002, 09:13 PM	#27
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	yea, i said galadriel was born in valinor __________________ Why can we not be sober..

05-10-2002, 10:04 AM	#30
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	It's a very hard question. Best to be mortal and be released from care, to see the outside world, than to endure forever the suffering the loss of others causes. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

05-18-2002, 05:27 PM	#31
Garina Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tring, Herts, England Posts: 582	I don't know. I wouldn't want immortality if the people I loved were mortal, because that would suck. I think I would actually choose mortality, although I think my judgement is biased by my attatchment to the Queen song - "Who wants to live forever?" Ooh! hang on, have to go mangle. __________________ Entmoot Resident Bard #2 Wielder of the shiny fire extinguisher Worshipper of the divine cheesecake Hamsters and Rangers everywhere, rejoice!!! Minsc, Baldur's Gate 2 Children, don't take drugs. Become a pop star, then people give them to you for free!!! - Billy Mack, Love Actually. While I'm sure the nice people from the local archery club meant well, a moment's consideration would have made them realise that giving my friend and I lethal weapons was probably not a good idea! Dammit, eyeliner and dreadlocks should not be that sexy!

05-07-2002, 04:47 PM	#24
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I definitely would have chosen the Gift of Men. The Elves and Valar are confined to the world - Men are allowed to see what lies beyond it.

05-07-2002, 08:56 PM	#26
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	According to the Athrabeth in Morgoth's Ring, the gift from Iluvatar to man was death. However, somehow the gift became tainted by Morgoth, and was no longer a pleasent thing to recieve. This was stated by Andreth to Finrod, but she refused to elaborate further.

05-09-2002, 08:12 PM	#29
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	The Gift of Man was predetemined. This was supposedly something that Illuvatar had decided upon before he created either the "Firstborn", or the "Secondborn" Somewhere, some how, in the early history of Man, according to the "Athrabeth" Men did something wrong that possibly tainted that gift.

05-19-2002, 04:02 PM	#32
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	That is undoubtably the greatest song in the history of the universe ever. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

05-20-2002, 02:13 PM	#34
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	You are incorrect. I suggest new glasses. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

05-21-2002, 07:04 AM	#35
Reumandar Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Land of Fire and Ice ('Tis a country You will never guess it) Posts: 103	But when the Elves are killed in battle (or something like that) were do they go is it not the same place as man, when they die (I'm very new here so if I sound stupid sorry) __________________ If envy were an illness the whole world would be sick (old Danish proverb) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Then Thorondor bore up Glorfindel's body out of the abyss, and they buried him in a mound of stones beside the pass; and a green turf came there, and yellow flowers bloomed upon it amid the barrenness of stone, until the world was changed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oh Potter you Rotter, Oh what have you done Your killing off the students, you think it's good fun

05-21-2002, 02:00 PM	#36
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	You doesn't sound stupid... don't worry. Welcome! Yeah. The elves go in their death to Mandos. The man go (I think) out of this land (I think it called Ea). I'm not sure. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

05-25-2002, 05:57 AM	#40
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Oh. OK. Understood now. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

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