12-04-2004, 06:17 PM | #21 | ||
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My thoughts on the matter (and I definitely could be wrong here) are that he was not called "Fingon the Valiant" in Valinor. First of all, Fingon wasn't a name he used until coming to Beleriand, so the use of the Sindarised forms of the names in the first part of the Silmarillion is obviously something that would have been added afterwards. Is it so impossible that the title was added afterwards as well, in response to deeds he did not yet do (such as the rescue of Maedhros) that were, all the same, known to whoever was recounting the story?
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12-04-2004, 06:25 PM | #22 | |
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it is so long since I have read the Sil, so I don't remember Fingon, and not what he did. but the idea of some great hunting don't seem so bad. Edit. I didn't remember if he got to Beleriand, or not. but when seeing Elemmires post, I think maybe she is right. that he got the name 'valiant' after comeing to Beleriand, rather than earn it in Valinor. but I am a bit tempted about the cliffdiving idea also.
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Don't Panic! Last edited by Pytt : 12-04-2004 at 06:29 PM. |
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12-04-2004, 07:11 PM | #23 |
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A yes, another one of Jenny Dolfen's pictures, right here if no-one has given the link before. By the way, is there any real evidence for that, or is it just a random theory created by the artist? Anyone know?
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12-05-2004, 05:02 AM | #24 | |
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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12-05-2004, 05:26 AM | #25 | ||
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 12-05-2004 at 05:35 AM. |
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12-05-2004, 04:37 PM | #26 | |
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Yes, Artanis. That's what I was trying to say.
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I personally think it more likely that Findekáno was the father name... My only support for this, however, is that almost all of their father names had some version of the name Finwë in it (it seems that someone was trying to prove something)... For example, we know that Fëanor gave (I think) all of his sons names like Nelyafinwë and Curufinwë... And then there's Findaráto, which is a father name... It's pure conjecture, but I'd guess that Findekáno was the father name.
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12-05-2004, 04:41 PM | #27 | |
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Yet I don't think that Tolkien wrote the Sil like that, as he did with the hobbit. Does it not say that Fingon was at the head of Fingolfin's people during the kinslaying, so it could be that he hepled Meadhros out of a tight situation.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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12-05-2004, 04:46 PM | #28 | |
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Of the Flight of the Noldor:
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Though there is a difference, in my mind, between Maedhros considering Fingon valiant and the rest of the Noldor believing it as well... ...And somehow I doubt that Maedhros was the one who recounted the tales of the First Age...
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12-05-2004, 04:48 PM | #29 |
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Well where does it say that the Noldor didn't regard Fingon as valient?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-05-2004, 04:51 PM | #30 |
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Ah. Now you are misunderstanding me.
As far as I know, the Noldor all do regard him as valiant. However, I don't know how many, other than the Fëanorians, would consider him valiant for kinslaying. This is why I believe it was most likely not at Alqualondë where he earned the title.
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12-05-2004, 04:56 PM | #31 |
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Although it doesn't say they didn't regard him as valient, it never says that they did. If only Meadhros says it at that time then maybe the Noldor did or didn't know him as that.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-06-2004, 12:15 AM | #32 |
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Now I'm confused.
Are you trying to argue that Fingon was called the Valiant simply because Maedhros considered him valiant? I don't think that argument is very stable... but I also don't think it's what you were trying to say.
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12-06-2004, 12:27 PM | #33 |
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It is, but is Fingon called 'the valient' anywhere else? I don't think he is but if I'm wrong then I'm sorry. But Maedhros referred to Fingon as 'the valiant' shortly after Fingon had saved Maedhros, his brothers and his father.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-06-2004, 01:07 PM | #34 | |
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Now I understand.
OK. I've looked up the name Fingon in the index (where he is called The Valiant as well ) and there are more references than solely when Maedhros calles him "Fingon the valiant." Quote:
Actually... I think that is the only other reference, unless I missed one... *leafing through text again for references to Fingon and "valiant"* Slightly OT... hey! How did Maeglin get to be called "valiant" at any part of the Silm...
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12-06-2004, 05:43 PM | #35 | |
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Findekáno Astaldo Ñolofinwion!
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12-06-2004, 05:50 PM | #36 | ||
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I can't gainsay that... But we all know how very valiant he was in front of Morgoth...
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12-06-2004, 05:53 PM | #37 | |
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12-06-2004, 05:58 PM | #38 |
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Very good.
But stop confusing me... Do you speak Quenya, btw? You sure like the names. In my...20 days here , I don't think I've "spoken" with you much yet...
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12-07-2004, 10:37 AM | #39 | |
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