The state of contemporary christian music

[crickhollow]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

There's a lot more to CCM than you're giving them credit for...tobyMac, Thousand Foot Krutch, MXPX, GRITS, Switchfoot, Hawk Nelson, Relient K, John Reuben, Underoath, Shawn Groves, Steven Curtis Chapman, Pillar, David Crowder...and they're all incredibly different.
CCM has as much diversity as its mainstream counterparts. You've got all sorts of music: punk, rap, hip-hop, hardcore, heavy rock, metal, pop, worship...As for instrumentation...you can hear tons of instruments besides heavy rock guitar. Look at Jars of Clay for starters. They use just about every type of alternative instrument you can find: dobro, accordian, 12-string guitar...It's true, some Christian radio stations might make it sound like every CCM song is the same, but that's not being fair to CCM. There's more than the radio.

if GRITS is in your list of top artists, then I can see that neither one of us is going to win the other over their side. I just saw Pillar, GRITS, and Skillet this weekend at a youth conference. meh.

of the above list, I would agree with you on Switchfoot and David Crowder. Possibly Reliant K and some of Hawk Nelson.

Steven Curtis Chapman, are you kidding me? I like the guy and all, but there are very few of his songs that aren't cringe inducing for their cheesyness. Even supposing I was kind enough to leave Dancing With The Dinosaurs buried in the past.


PS for clarification's sake, are we terming all Christian artists (and again, I'm using the term 'artist' loosely) CCM?

[crickhollow]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

My son likes Jeremy Camp, Thousand Foot Krutch, Switchfoot, Relient K.

I like Switchfoot, and I really love a guy named Chris Rice - his music is fine but not great, but his lyrics are so totally random! Very imaginative lyrics.

I do like Jeremy Camp, too.

[rohirrim TR]

hmm it interesting on all the viewpoints, myself I don't consider switchfoot, relient k, pillar, TFK, CCM at all

when I think of CCM I think of Steven c chapman, micheal w smith (whats with all the long names) chris rice.

Switchfoot at the very least cannot be termed CCM they have tried very hard to stay away from a CCM label. (wisely IMO)

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by crickhollow

if GRITS is in your list of top artists, then I can see that neither one of us is going to win the other over their side. I just saw Pillar, GRITS, and Skillet this weekend at a youth conference. meh.

of the above list, I would agree with you on Switchfoot and David Crowder. Possibly Reliant K and some of Hawk Nelson.

Steven Curtis Chapman, are you kidding me? I like the guy and all, but there are very few of his songs that aren't cringe inducing for their cheesyness. Even supposing I was kind enough to leave Dancing With The Dinosaurs buried in the past.


PS for clarification's sake, are we terming all Christian artists (and again, I'm using the term 'artist' loosely) CCM?

I wasn't actually naming a list of my favorites. The list was simply my attempt to show the diversity of CCM. Chapman is not one of my faves.

Currently, I'd have to go with SWFT, RK, and TFK for my favorites...but that's not the purpose of this thread...

Originally Posted by Rian

I really love a guy named Chris Rice - his music is fine but not great, but his lyrics are so totally random! Very imaginative lyrics.

Have you heard his Total Axxess song? He did it for a radio show, and it's so ridiculously random. The chorus is like:
We love Total Axxess,
Even Mr. tobyMac says
"We love Total Axxess."
EDIT: Never mind. It was Matthew West who did the song. Silly me

[Snowdog]

In the 90's there were some good cutting edge (for Christian music at least) bands like Prayer Chain, Sometime Sunday, and Grammatrain. I haven't heard much of late that wasn't out of the CCM mainstream. Even the usually bold Cornerstone Festival has lost their edge and has crept evermore closer to booking the same bland acts other Christian festivals book. I sure miss the 90's Tomfest.

[Rían]

Here's some of Chris Rice's lovely random lyrics:

"I would take 'no' for an answer
just to know I heard You speak ...

Sometimes finding You
is just like trying to
smell the color 9"

----------------------------

"Feel the sun in my eyes, swat that clumsy fly [a ref. to an earlier song]
woke me up from a dream about heaven.
Smellin' coffe downstairs, yawn a quick little prayer,
and get up at a quarter to seven.
Mirror catches my stare, got some nice pillow hair,
and I smile all the way to the bathroom,
Scratch my whiskery chin, now my cranium swims
with questions I can't wait to ask You.

Like, why did You bother with so many stars?
Do you ever play tricks on the angels?
What happened to all of those dinosaurs?
Where's the Garden of Eden? and what causes Deja Vu?

...

Do our jokes make You laugh?
What's your favorite cartoon?
Can you tell us what's out past the edges?
What about UFO's, taste buds and tornadoes?
Why do we dream? oh, and what causes Deja Vu?"

--------------------------------------------------------

"Fresh page, new pen, where do I begin?
Words fail, tears come, I need someone
To take the thoughts I almost think
And carry them to God for me."

---------------------------------------------------------

"None of us knows and this makes it a mystery
If life is a comedy, then why all the tragedy?
Three and a half pounds of brain try to figure out
what this world is all about
and is there an eternity?"

---------------------------------------------------------

[and one of my favorites - this is a guy talking to the stars]

"I could stand her looking at you for a thousand years
And if I could I'd fly to the heavens and meet you there
But this gravity keeps holding me down ..."

[and then the stars answer]

"Hey, you, looking at me, tell me what do you see from down there?
Hey, if you could, tell me how do we look from down there?"

-----------------------------------------------------------

[the first song I heard of his, and still one of my favorites]

"Deep enough to dream in brilliant colors I have never seen,
Deep enough to join a billion people for a wedding feast,
Deep enough to reach out and touch the face of the One who made me
And oh, the love I feel, and oh the peace,
Do I ever have to wake up?

....

my heart's held hostage by this love."

[rohirrim TR]

*holds head* ahhh Chris Rice take over battle stations battle stations *collapses*

[Snowdog]

I thought this thread was about the state of contemporary christian music... but then I forgot this was Entmoot.... silly me.

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I thought this thread was about the state of contemporary christian music... but then I forgot this was Entmoot.... silly me.

Snowdog, welcome back, I haven't seen you around in a long time, granted I'm not here often but anyway good to see you.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

I wasn't actually naming a list of my favorites. The list was simply my attempt to show the diversity of CCM. Chapman is not one of my faves.

Currently, I'd have to go with SWFT, RK, and TFK for my favorites...but that's not the purpose of this thread...


Have you heard his Total Axxess song? He did it for a radio show, and it's so ridiculously random. The chorus is like:
We love Total Axxess,
Even Mr. tobyMac says
"We love Total Axxess."
EDIT: Never mind. It was Matthew West who did the song. Silly me

I know there's stuff to defend, and defend it! Because I'll attack it.
As Rohirrm TR said, some of the above named, namely Switchfoot, are not considered CCM...but...
Steven Curtis Chapman is an artist we use to listen to a lot back in the day...now, he is incredibly annoying. Like-wise with Michael W Smith. I consider them mediocrity.

Anyways...to continue my suggestions:

1) don't write lyrics that rhyme all the thyme (ach! ).
Rhyming lyrics is something I'm divided on. Bob Dylan, who is considered a master songwriter, overdid it in one song...and I didn't see why I myself could'nt come up with those lyrics. They were just too commonplace, too much rhyming.
Also, lyrics that go a bit deeper than "I want to make you famous" (which is also irreverent and disrespectful...not to mention absurd) are greatly neede. Too many songs are a different version of eacher...it's like everyone wrote a "Variations on the theme of 'Jesus Loves me' ".
Not many artists go further than that. And they need to.
Am I bieng too harsh? I hold up the example of Keith Green, who managed to make every one of his songs original in some way. The song/sermon about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked etc...that was the most different christian song I'd ever heard, and it was brilliant. But lets not say that everyone should be a Keith Green, I only hold him up as a brilliant example of the christian songwriter.

2)Try out different intrumentation.
Hard Rock Electric Guitar can be very tiresome after two or three songs on the radio that use it.
Instead, I think that coming up with interesting instrumentation for a particular album would greatly help the mood (if they are any good) and feel of lyrics (if those are any good).

3) Beats: having beats that are always the same in nearly every song is extremly annoying. this particulur beat: bum-bum-BUM(!), is also rampant in rap and hip hop, as well as pop and rock. It's not so much the beat I mind as how it is/and how much it is used. Different, more drawn out beats are sometimes required for a certain type of song, and the accent doesnt always have to (and shouldnt!) go on the third bum.

4)perhaps ditching at least an eighth of the "affectation" from the singing style (and I speak here to whom it applies). I think this "affected" singing style comes off really fake. The artist may actually be very sincere about it, but thats not my point.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I thought this thread was about the state of contemporary christian music... but then I forgot this was Entmoot.... silly me.

I thought contemporary Christian music meant Christian music that was, like, contemporary. Is this wrong?

How is Switchfoot not CCM?

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I thought contemporary Christian music meant Christian music that was, like, contemporary. Is this wrong?

How is Switchfoot not CCM?

not necesarrily, I was afraid this would happen.

when I say CCM I'm thinking of the artists that have a CCM label and are affiliated with the magazine etc...

Switchfoot on the other hand has in the last 3 years switched (no pun intended I promise) to a Sony label, -as has Third Day incidentally- and have distanced themselves -for the most part- from the CCM magazine and the whole "christian" industry.

[crickhollow]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

I wasn't actually naming a list of my favorites. The list was simply my attempt to show the diversity of CCM. Chapman is not one of my faves.

Sorry, i thought you were trying to list examples of musical excellence. (and it is too bad that his songs are so gimmicky, because everytime I've heard him speak, I've loved what he has to say.)

I guess I was defining CCM as the Christian counterpart to the 'Contemporary' or 'Adult Contemporary' music genre, like that soft rock station (come on, every town has one!) that plays all Phil Collins all the time (or even, all Sting all the time). But this may be a bit too narrow for the purposes of this discussion. I move to expand the topic to "The State of Christian Music", which covers over a multitude of genres and sub-genres.

[rohirrim TR]

I think Jeremy Camp is the most talented and diverse "CCM" artist out there, he's done so many styles of music, when he started out he was more of a rocker and now he's doing the "unplugged" tour with pure acoustics and a strings section.

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by crickhollow

I guess I was defining CCM as the Christian counterpart to the 'Contemporary' or 'Adult Contemporary' music genre, like that soft rock station (come on, every town has one!) that plays all Phil Collins all the time (or even, all Sting all the time). But this may be a bit too narrow for the purposes of this discussion. I move to expand the topic to "The State of Christian Music", which covers over a multitude of genres and sub-genres.

Ah...that's true. And looking at it, I think that's what Hector did mean. If so, I agree with him fairly. But I'd like to expand discussion too.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

Ah...that's true. And looking at it, I think that's what Hector did mean. If so, I agree with him fairly. But I'd like to expand discussion too.

Certainly. I'm ready to hear

[Curubethion]

All right. If we were to expand the discussion, we would see that Christian Music has filled a large number of genres: hard rock, rap, hip-hop, punk, ska, hardcore, rapcore (POD!), rock, and contemporary. There are a large number of Christian artists in each of these categories, and just because an artist goes mainstream doesn't mean they're not Christian.
Here's part of a post I had earlier...and there's more than I listed. Bleach, Superchic[k], Bethany Dillon, Krystal Meyers, Rebecca St. James, BarlowGirl, and the list goes on...

Originally Posted by Curubethion

There's a lot more to CCM than you're giving them credit for...tobyMac, Thousand Foot Krutch, MXPX, GRITS, Switchfoot, Hawk Nelson, Relient K, John Reuben, Underoath, Shawn Groves, Steven Curtis Chapman, Pillar, David Crowder...and they're all incredibly different.
CCM has as much diversity as its mainstream counterparts. You've got all sorts of music: punk, rap, hip-hop, hardcore, heavy rock, metal, pop, worship...As for instrumentation...you can hear tons of instruments besides heavy rock guitar. Look at Jars of Clay for starters. They use just about every type of alternative instrument you can find: dobro, accordian, 12-string guitar...It's true, some Christian radio stations might make it sound like every CCM song is the same, but that's not being fair to CCM. There's more than the radio.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

All right. If we were to expand the discussion, we would see that Christian Music has filled a large number of genres: hard rock, rap, hip-hop, punk, ska, hardcore, rapcore (POD!), rock, and contemporary. There are a large number of Christian artists in each of these categories, and just because an artist goes mainstream doesn't mean they're not Christian.
Here's part of a post I had earlier...and there's more than I listed. Bleach, Superchic[k], Bethany Dillon, Krystal Meyers, Rebecca St. James, BarlowGirl, and the list goes on...

But unfortunately, in all those areas, it is nearly pure, uninterrupted mediocrity. Many bands sound the same. And certainly most of the songs. Thats what I'm driving at, the CONTENT of the music. Artists need to shove vigorously aside all pretensions, all cutesyness, and dig deeper into their experiences with god, and as a christian...but even here we can go back into the old ways, even if our songs are good, the music for them needs to carry out the phrases the right way (this is not the same as THE FORMULAIC WAY).

I think that a lot of what is lacking is nuance, it seems that some bands once they've written their songs, just want to get them over with with the usual guitar, the same way of singing, and its like watching the same glob of molasses on a different color of graham cracker each time.

I desperately want to point out some specific examples, but I don't know whose songs are whose (always) on the radio.

p.s. "Digging deeper into their christian lives" can also be pretty repititious, but I hope that my suggestion to do something more sincere comes through.

[Curubethion]

You should listen to Jars of Clay...especially their earlier stuff. And Switchfoot's early work-especially Legend of Chin. They're not like the stuff you're describing. There's also TFK-their take on rock is pretty sweet. Even if it does have electric guitar, so does all metal, rock, hard music.
And trust me, there's a whole lot more than molasses.
www.relientk.com
www.switchfoot.com
www.jarsofclay.com
http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com/main.php

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

You should listen to Jars of Clay...especially their earlier stuff. And Switchfoot's early work-especially Legend of Chin. They're not like the stuff you're describing. There's also TFK-their take on rock is pretty sweet. Even if it does have electric guitar, so does all metal, rock, hard music.
And trust me, there's a whole lot more than molasses.
www.relientk.com
www.switchfoot.com
www.jarsofclay.com
http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com/main.php

Well, I've heard that Switchfoot is good, and I havent heard RelientK. In their early days, Jars of Clay was one of my older brothers favorite bands. I don't remember much about their songs then, but now they are definitely not that good

Of course I don't expect Rock etc..not to have electric guitar. Electric guitar is part of what rock is. The problem is that there is almost no variation.