01-07-2004, 12:54 PM | #21 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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01-07-2004, 01:06 PM | #22 |
The Tall
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Smack.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
01-07-2004, 01:07 PM | #23 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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*hee hee*
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01-14-2004, 07:52 PM | #24 |
Elven Warrior
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Congrats, Artanis. Your smack-down was good enough to shut down this topic.
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01-15-2004, 04:30 AM | #25 | |
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01-15-2004, 10:22 AM | #26 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Is this why, as thread-starter, I suddenly developed a black eye, bloody nose and bruised knee?
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01-15-2004, 10:26 AM | #27 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Nobody has smacked you Val - yet.
But if we continue to spam this thread, SGH might fetch her admin stick.
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02-14-2004, 12:43 PM | #28 |
Elven Warrior
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Hey i haven't entirely read the Silmarillion bu ti have to ask one question......
The Valar were trying to create a utopian society right? What was their motif? cuz we have a project for history class about utopian societies that fialed and i decided to do teh valar seeing that melkor messed up middle earth...can anyone help me? And whcih parts should i read in teh silmarillion to get my answers? of coure 'il read the whole thign l8er fo rmy own pleasure but the thingy is du eon monday!!! ahhhhhhhhh what is hte motif for the Valar creating a perfect society???? THANKSSSSSESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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*~*~E-M-I-K-O---T-H-E-I-N~*~* LEGOLAS GREENLEAF 10 Things You'll Find in Legolas' Backpack - Elvensmiths & Co. 10. hairbrush 9. blower 8. powder 7. Enya’s "the Memory of Trees" CD 6. cold cream 5. mud packs 4. First Aid kit 3. shampoo and conditioner 2. his picture 1. 101 Ways to Become the Prettiest Thing in Middle Earth that is from theonering.net 'tookish ticklers top ten things'...just citing my sources..... |
02-14-2004, 02:16 PM | #29 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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02-15-2004, 05:18 AM | #30 |
Elven Warrior
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ok i see....so its just that they wanted a happy society and world where they enjoy the things htey see adn create.......like even the awakening of hte elves and teh dwarves and all that right? so it's like plain desire that made them create what they did.......okie.....and their philosophy was to make iluvatar happy? i'm a little confused htere but htanks anways!!! i've gotta work so hard to find tha tanswer....i should read the preface..oh well!
TTFN
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*~*~E-M-I-K-O---T-H-E-I-N~*~* LEGOLAS GREENLEAF 10 Things You'll Find in Legolas' Backpack - Elvensmiths & Co. 10. hairbrush 9. blower 8. powder 7. Enya’s "the Memory of Trees" CD 6. cold cream 5. mud packs 4. First Aid kit 3. shampoo and conditioner 2. his picture 1. 101 Ways to Become the Prettiest Thing in Middle Earth that is from theonering.net 'tookish ticklers top ten things'...just citing my sources..... |
02-16-2004, 06:31 PM | #31 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Great quotes, Maedhros! Where is that? (Vinyar Tengwar: Ósanwe-kenta)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-17-2004, 05:22 AM | #32 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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R*an, Vinyar Tengwar is a journal, devoted to Tolkien's invented languages. You can read about it here
The Ósanwe-kenta, Enquiry into the Communication of Thought, was published in VT no. 39.
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02-19-2004, 01:03 PM | #33 |
Elven Warrior
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I think Artanis hit the nail firmly on the head. Another example was the Valar's unwillingness to deal with Ar-Pharazon(men) when he set sail to Valinor. Instead of dealing with men they simply dropped the problem on Eru's feet.
To answer the original question, I do think the Valar shirked duty at times in their own best intrest. By turning a blind eye toward Melkor/Morgoth's misdeeds, they really undermined the perception of the Valar's integrity. They had many chances at redemption: after the raping of the Silmarils and especially during the Ar-Pharazon incident. They just never took control over the direction of Arda. Unfortunately, the Valar's choices brought an enormous amount of hardship on men and elves.
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
02-28-2004, 11:10 AM | #34 |
Hobbit
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The Valar were unsuccessful in many of their endeavors regarding Arda and its people. They did try, on various occasions, to help and save the Eldar.
This, I content does no imply the Valar "shirked their reasonability". On numerous occasions they offered assistance to the Eldar, beginning with their initial war with Melkor, which was commenced with the aim of preserving Middle Earth for the Elves. Then, when this proved beyond them, they offered the Eldar a chance to leave the tainted Hither land and come to Aman, which they had managed to preserve. Melkor was imprisoned, and the Eldar were welcomed to the bliss of Valinor. Feanor and the Silmarils, coupled along with a released Melkor's malice, caused the flight of the Noldor FROM paradise, back to a middle earth that was still under the yoke of shadow. The Valar initially gave them every opportunity to return, but they would not, and thus the Valar are not at fault. The Sindar also exist in middle earth, and thus suffer its perils, for they were NOT willing to go to Aman in the first place. The Valar only come to their aid at the behest of Earendil having been, well, screwed over in their plans by the malice of Melkor, and the pride of the Noldor. What else should the Valar have done, for those who spurned their paradise and refused their help? Should they assist these said rebels only when they start to lose? I contend that it’s the Valar that were abandoned, and their counsel shunned.
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02-28-2004, 11:23 AM | #35 |
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Oh, and on the subject of the Edain and the fall of Numenor, I still fail to see how one can blame the Valar for the failing of Men.
The Valar, seeing the sacrifice made by the fathers of men, REWARDED them with the gift of Westernesse. It gave all those loyal and true a home free from fear, and plentiful in bounty. What the hell else did the men of the west want? Their only problem was the "gift" of Iluvatar. And their lives were extended in recompense. It was the pride of men, fanned by the malice of Sauron that led to the invasion of Aman. So the Valar called upon Eru to sort the men out. So what? The Valar had given the forsaken men of Middle Earth a haven of sanctuary on Arda, a place of heaven on earth for them to live in peace. Only to have the same men whom loved their compassion invade them with the purpose of annihilating them, and taking their land for their own. Talk about gratitude. The Valar didn't "cop out" and call upon Eru for the solution, they felt the treachery of men was such that only the creator could cleanse Arda from its effects. So once again, who owes who?
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02-28-2004, 01:46 PM | #36 |
Elf Lord
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I do think The Valar were shrinking thewir duties.
Let's say The Valar did convinced the elves to go to Valinor. When Melkor is back, don't they think to go and help the Sindar? Is Melkor the Sindar's job to fight against? Is it their fault, that he's free again? The answer is no. The Noldor went to fight Morgoth, and I don't think the Valar should have stopped them. If they wanted to leave Valinor I don't think the Valar have a problem but perhaps, the Valasr should've fight Morgoth themselves, before he could get his full powers back, create dragons, etc.? I can't find any problem with the Valar's reaction after Ar Pharazon 'attacked' them, and can't find the Men's treachery their fault. |
02-28-2004, 02:23 PM | #37 | |||
The Tall
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-28-2004, 02:31 PM | #38 |
Elf Lord
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So Eru agrees with me that the Valar should've fight Melkor before, but doesn't agree that they should've fight him after the Noldor left Aman? That's what I understood.
Isn't shrink means to make something smaller? |
02-28-2004, 04:51 PM | #39 | |
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02-28-2004, 05:18 PM | #40 | |
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