What people think of Two Towers (*SPOILERS*)

[Gerbil]

The feeling I get is that certain actions make the spirits 'lock in' to a certain physical form.
The Balrogs are an example of this - somehow they have become 'part' of the physical reality that is the Balrog's earthly form. As a result they can be killed etc. (again - leads one to wonder if their spirits remain but totally impotent).
Both Melkor and sauron exhibited this trait - after certain actions they lost forever the ability to appear in a 'nice' form, and could only take evil shapes.
Possibly it's this 'locking in' that makes them so vulnerable in an earthly manner - the physical and spiritual side becomes much more closely entwined than would otherwise be the case.

That quote about some of the Maiar being almost as strong as the Valar begs the question about Gandalf's relative strength.
It's my assumption that in Valinor, he is one of the most powerful - but over there like Manwe was more of a spiritual creature, not one to use power to dominate or coerce. Indeed, Olorin does not want to go to ME to fight Sauron, because he fears him, but Manwe says that is the very reason he should go.
If I recall, Gandalf is 'aligned' to Manwe, Saruman to Aule (hence knowledge, and desire of knowledge over artifacts etc), Radagast to Yavanna (I think?) - can't remember about the two blue wizards though.

Erm, fairly rambling, so I'll stop now

[eowyngirl14]

Just read everything you all wrote... brain trying to process all of very big words... system over load... system failure... BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP... BEEEEEEEEEEEP...

[azalea]

I was going to mention that a lot of this, although facinating, is indeed quite OT. There is a thread in this forum called "Sauron is an eye" where some of this can be discussed in relation to the movies, and I would also suggest searching the Middle Earth and Silmarillion forums for more info/ discussion opportunity on the nature of Maia. These have been very thought-provoking posts, but they really don't belong in this thread.

[Christiana]

"Morever their(the Valars') comes of their knowledge of the visible World.....an they need it not,save only as we use raiment....Therefore the Valar may walk, if they will,unclad,and then even the Eldar can not fully perceive them,though they be present."page11of TS.



"The maiar have seldom appeared in form visible to Elves and men."

[Aragorns Dimple]

Generally, I liked it more than the first one, as there is more involvement with each character as the films progress. I loved it that Gimli had more lines in this one, and a chance to prove his worthiness as a Dwarf Warrior. I loved the way Aragorn developed from a scruffy Ranger to an upstart King in waiting. I loved Legolas' ever changing eye colour and his shield-surfing antics at Helms Deep! I loved it that they showed Pip and Merry with more depth this time, wanting to do their bit to save M.E. too. I loved Samwise for his wisdom and strength not to get cheesed off with Frodo whining at him all the time! And I loved Gollum, wasn't he just the cutest little pixellated thing you've seen since Final Fantasy X !

I do have one gripe, though, I wish they had shown Merry and Pip having a few wee drinkies of the "Ent Draught", so they could explain towards the end how they suddenly grew taller than Sam and the Frodinator. Tall Hobbits r secksay!

[TinuvielChild]

I may or may not have said this yet, but I have two more things to say:

*Balrogs don't have wings!

*The bit where Arwen saves Aragorn, after the river...anyone who hadn't read the Sil wouldn't know what the heck the Valar are.

[eowyngirl14]

Wonderfull! There is a reason I don't understand... haven't gotten around to readind the Silmarillian (sp.?) yet.
Yes! Someone who agrees with me! Balrogs have no wings! And even if they did, they wouldn't be as pretty as my wings!

Frodinater, I like the sound of that! I agree with you, more of Merry and Pippin at entwash, and drinking the entdrought would have been nice... but you can't get everything you wish for!

[Firhithiel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I thought it was far better than Fellowship of the Ring. I really did like Mordor. I thought the whole thing was really exciting. The only things I didn't like were Faramir - i think he is a lot nicer in the book. I also didn't like the slow motion of Shadowfax when you first see him.

I agree. I think that Shadowfax is very cool, but the slow-mo thing was a bit weird. And I didn't like the fact that Gandalf gets to ride Shadowfax!! ((I know this has nothing to do with the difference between the movie and the book, because in the book it's the same thing, but hey this is my post.)) Anyway, I think Legolas should ride Shadowfax. He'd look nicer on a pretty white horse than an old ugly man would. No offense to Gandalf-fans (if he has any). I think Mordor was very cool. I really freaked out the part where the thingy-ma-bobber nearly caught Sam and Frodo. What were they hiding under, anyway?! I never really got that part. A cape thing, right? Why'd it look like a rock? That's one of my questions about TTT. But anyway, Mordor is very scary/realistic, just like I imagined it. And the whole gate... that was even cooler than I imagined it!! It was freaky though. And the part where he fell in the water in the swamp. (Frodo) and Gollum saves him. Yay Golly! (GOLLY?! Where did that come from?!?)

Um, what else should I say... ah, yes, Faramir. Faramir was evil!!!! Die, DIE!! Aahhhh! He's much nicer in the book! I thought the part where he yelled "NAZGUL!!!" was really cool. Like out of the blue he just yells. Hehe, so it wasn't so out of the blue, it was still pretty cool.

Yep. I'm gonna stop writing now. I...will...stop...writing.... hehehe.... --Firhithiel G.

[azalea]

Yes, they hid under Lorien cloaks, that are supposed to camouflage the wearer. But I think many of us were surprised at just how far PJ took the camouflaging! Anyway, it was kind of cool, at least he included something about it, right?

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Firhithiel Greenleaf
I agree. I think that Shadowfax is very cool, but the slow-mo thing was a bit weird. And I didn't like the fact that Gandalf gets to ride Shadowfax!! ((I know this has nothing to do with the difference between the movie and the book, because in the book it's the same thing, but hey this is my post.)) Anyway, I think Legolas should ride Shadowfax. He'd look nicer on a pretty white horse than an old ugly man would. No offense to Gandalf-fans (if he has any).
.....
--Firhithiel G.

I happen to be a partial Gandalf fan! He is way coolio! He looks awesome riding Shadowfax! Especcialy down the hill to the rescue at Helms Deep!
Aaaaaahhh... not another Legolas fan! (j/k) Aragorn is sooo much cooler! And you know it! You just won't admit it!

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by azalea
Yes, they hid under Lorien cloaks, that are supposed to camouflage the wearer. But I think many of us were surprised at just how far PJ took the camouflaging! Anyway, it was kind of cool, at least he included something about it, right?

I wished they had shown Sam falling down the hill/cliff/ sandy slope thingy! When Frodo was running down, I had no idea where he was going! Also, Sam and Frodo were so close to the line of hundredsof marching orcs? man? (I couldn't really rell who/what they were. Although the one who walked up to the 'rock' looked a lot like a girl to me...) Wouldn't one of the marchers have noticed?? Someone posted this in the mistakes forum, but you see Sam looking at their feet under the gap between the cloak and sand/dirt/ground. But, when Frodo pulls of the cloak, it is like in the ground a little bit, and has to be pulled out! Seems a little fishy to me...

[Elf Girl]

When I saw the Black Gate opening, I thought they were cutting Cirith Ungol... I practically screamed.

[eowyngirl14]

NOw that I have seen TTT four times, I have decided on my favorite seen... When the olympic torch runner orc is carrying the explosives and Aragorn is yelling in Elvish, Legolas, Bring him down. Kill him, Legolas! Kill him! I loved the way they did it! I cryed so hard! But, if I were Legolas, I would feel really guilty because I had missedm, well not missed, but failed to kill him. I Also liked the part before the Battle of Helm's Deep, when the soldiers of Rohan are taking away all of the young boys, and the women are pleading and cying for them not to... I liked the way there was no sound. But in my mind I could hear each word the were saying. It always surprised me when the cut to another scene with sound, I was thinking Oh, there was no sound for a moment...

[Cirdan]

...except olympic torch guy is surrounded by other orcs with torches, albeit less olympian torches. It sort of killed it for me on the second viewing. nice slo-mo though...

[eowyngirl14]

Noooooooo! You are wrong!!!!!! It's beautiful!!!! *grumbles about Cirdan being right... again*

[Kalimac]

>>except olympic torch guy is surrounded by other orcs with torches<<

Well, it always seems to me that orcs are only capable of doing the job they were bred for . . the orcs standing around with torches are not capable of independent thinking, thus they needed a 'specially bred beserker orc to go in and light the darn thing.'

And, if you all didn't know . . Peter Jackson carried the 2000 Olympic Torch in Wellington, New Zealand just about the time that this scene was filmed . . another reference to the Olympics seems to be Gimli's comments about running cross country vs being a sprinter.

[Cirdan]

The Massive was programmed with special orcs ("heros") that were more capable of independent action.

Orcs are best at being slaughtered while attacking chaoticly.

Olympic torch guy did take several arrows, ala boromir, so he must have been a bad ...

[LuthienTinuviel]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
When I saw the Black Gate opening, I thought they were cutting Cirith Ungol... I practically screamed.

i was getting ready to walk out.

[mithrand1r]

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
I wished they had shown Sam falling down the hill/cliff/ sandy slope thingy! When Frodo was running down, I had no idea where he was going! Also, Sam and Frodo were so close to the line of hundredsof marching orcs? man? (I couldn't really rell who/what they were. Although the one who walked up to the 'rock' looked a lot like a girl to me...) Wouldn't one of the marchers have noticed?? Someone posted this in the mistakes forum, but you see Sam looking at their feet under the gap between the cloak and sand/dirt/ground. But, when Frodo pulls of the cloak, it is like in the ground a little bit, and has to be pulled out! Seems a little fishy to me...

Ironically, I thought the same thing when I saw the film the second time. Although you do not see much of the warrior investigating the dust cloud/fallen rocks etc., I did get the impression that it was a lady under the warrior clothing.

It does not change the story at all. I just did not expect to notice a lady fighting for Mordor.

Sincerely,
Anthony

[eowyngirl14]

Ya, It didn't bother me really, I was just thinking why would they go out of there way to make that orc(?)/person look like a girl, or use a girl to play it/him/her? There was definetly a lot of eye makup. like mascara and black eyeliner on that orc/person!