"Temporary" Venting Thread V

[Lief Erikson]

I feel so sad about the tendency people have to condemn others without thinking about things from their perspective or trying once to see them as fellow human beings.

There are some people I really am tempted to condemn. I think we have a tendency to dehumanize and villify people that have done evil things that we completely disagree with. For instance, I've been feeling more sorry, lately, for Osama bin Laden, and sometimes I feel very sorry for suicide bombers. They die, expecting to go to Heaven, believing they are doing a great thing for the world. They make the ultimate sacrifice, often out of a sincere belief that they are doing the right thing. And yet they are doing evil, and these people could be much more and have so much better a future. People speak of them and of Osama bin Laden as though they're the devil, not recognizing their humanity and seeing that there is good in them too. We don't like to think about that; we need to stereotype people as villains and dodge the broader and more real look into them.

Another case I think of is those two students who took the footage of their fellow student, who was a homosexual, in the homosexual act. They clearly invaded his privacy in a horrible way, and the student they were filming committed suicide when he learned about the sex tape . This was a terrible tragedy, and the young man's death is horrible. So is the callous choice of those students to film him, without any regard for how it would affect his psyche or his future life. I've seen a lot of that kind of callous attitude among college students. Not that they'd necessarily make a secret sex film of other people, but they make light of horrific things and often act in a brazen way, not caring, or speaking as though it doesn't matter, when those things actually matter greatly. It's as if callousness is the "cool" way, and anyone who disagrees is just being hypersensitive and judgmental.

I also feel horrible for those two students who filmed the guy, Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei, because they didn't murder him, they committed an act of invasion of privacy, and they turned themselves in when they learned of the suicide. But people are blaming them for the student's death. The students' faces are plastered all over the Internet. This incident, and their faces, have been on all the public news stations. The charge of invasion of privacy could get these students 1-5 years in prison, which I believe they do deserve, but prosecutors are trying to get hate crimes added in, to see if they can increase the term the students spend in prison. And everyone I hear from, all over the Internet, is condemning them fiercely, treating them as though they're animals.

These are young people, students, who have their whole lives ahead of them. And now they are vilified everywhere and people are trying to destroy them. What kind of a future can they have after this, especially if the sentence is extended? They should have been able to serve the time in prison appropriate to their crime, between one and five years, and come out in a position to make new lives, without everyone knowing about their past offenses. Then they could have worked to repair the damage done their futures and established better things for themselves.

But now it looks like they might have to spend a longer time in prison than is just for very young people who made mistakes in such a confused and morally gray environment as campus often can be, holding the same kinds of ambivalent attitudes I've seen in many students. People in that environment think so many things are fine, amusing or a good joke even when they're cruel or harsh. I've heard college students laugh about cruel things that happened to others. They can be stupid and thoughtless easily, and careless about other people's suffering. The same kind of thing happens among highschoolers all the time. So much of the college environment is just as callous and self-centered, yet most students get normal lives without legal penalties because they don't go one step further like these students did.

Even after these students come out of jail, after their (hopefully not) extra long sentence, they will have to face an environment where everyone knows them for their crimes and has judged them over and over again. Their faces are all over the Internet and threads have been made everywhere condemning them and wishing the worst for them. This isn't something they'll be able to leave behind them. They were getting an education (over now . . . maybe one day they'll be able to restart it?). They have full lives ahead of them, and we can't say that they will always have the same foolish attitudes they had when they took that film, yet their lives could easily be wrecked by this because people condemn so easily and completely, without taking into account the good in a person or offering anyone a chance. Can't these young people be shown mercy?

People's condemning spirit is cruel, and I hate it, and it makes me so sad. When people deprive themselves and other people of good things, and act either callously or vengefully (including myself, if I recognize my mistake afterward), it makes me so sad. We shouldn't dehumanize anyone or villify people in such a way that we can't feel sorry for them or try to do them good or hope the best for them, because they're the bad guys or have done evil things in their lives. We shouldn't be merciless or condemning.

In the last few days, someone very close to me was also condemning me pretty roundly, and it made me feel so sad for that person and for what he was saying. It's so sad. I believe we need to always keep people's humanity before us and try to treat them as we would wish to be treated, no matter how they treat us.

Anyway, enough with that vent . . .



EDIT: Erm . . . Eärniel, I just realized this is a very long vent. If you think it's too long for the venting thread, feel free to splice it out and create its own thread for it, using the subject heading it presently has.

[Earniel]

There's no rule concerning the lenght of vents. The only risk you run when writing long vents is that people lose interest after a paragraph or two. Nothing more.

[Lief Erikson]

Okay, that's fine .

[katya]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

There's no rule concerning the lenght of vents. The only risk you run when writing long vents is that people lose interest after a paragraph or two. Nothing more.

Guilty. But I do have a pizza that's almost done and I have to be careful not to burn, and I'm already burnt out myself from a long day.

So anyway Lief, I didn't read your whole post, but I think it is a VERY important topic. I try to point out the pain of wrongdoers, not only of the victims, when I can. And I think that adding hate to the world can never reduce hate, that adding love and compassion instead could only be a good thing.

Once in an English class I was leading a discussion about bullying. I made the mistake of comparing bullying to binge drinking in that both make you feel... sort of "as if" you were enjoying it, but because you know it's wrong or unhealthy you don't really enjoy it in the same way you would enjoy a positive activity. Of course, all the students took away from it was that apparently I like binge drinking.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Of course, when people say "don't judge," they mean "don't judge the people I don't judge." I suspect that the only alternative to this is to live a life entirely, (and I do mean entirely) devoid of any sense of moral restraint. When we hear of a mass murderer, a mother who keeps her son in a cage and strips off his flesh bit by bit, we naturally are filled with revulsion, and think "What a horrible person! What kind of monster is capable of something like that!"

As a Christian, I believe that the saying "Judge not, lest ye be judged" ought to be taken very, very seriously. We ought never to condemn a person, but yet I continue to do so. I suspect that entering a truly non-judgmental state of life is a lifelong work, something we have to continually strive at. Hopefully, I inch closer and closer to it.

[Tessar]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, Lief. I understand you don't mean those things happened to you, but your feelings seem to be in turmoil over the issues.

My vent is that I can't wait to get a freakin' haircut!!!! Argldybargldy!!!!!!! >.<

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by katya

Once in an English class I was leading a discussion about bullying. I made the mistake of comparing bullying to binge drinking in that both make you feel... sort of "as if" you were enjoying it, but because you know it's wrong or unhealthy you don't really enjoy it in the same way you would enjoy a positive activity. Of course, all the students took away from it was that apparently I like binge drinking.

What, you like binge drinking?






Oh yeah, you wrote something else too . . .

Originally Posted by katya

Guilty. But I do have a pizza that's almost done and I have to be careful not to burn, and I'm already burnt out myself from a long day.

Hope your pizza was great .

Originally Posted by katya

So anyway Lief, I didn't read your whole post, but I think it is a VERY important topic. I try to point out the pain of wrongdoers, not only of the victims, when I can. And I think that adding hate to the world can never reduce hate, that adding love and compassion instead could only be a good thing.

I think that when we disregard the humanity of the wrongdoers and condemn them, in a way, we shed some of our own humanity and become wrongdoers ourselves .

I completely agree with your post. I'm very glad you're sensitive to this. It's comforting to me to see how far you're ready to take compassion, that you would put the effort forward to increase people's awareness of the humanity of people society is inclined to harshly judge.

For me, your post is a real gift. It really brightens my evening a lot, because it shows so much gentleness and mercy. To me, reading your post is receiving a touch from God. I look for Him all around me in life, day by day, and I can feel Him through your post. So thanks .

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Of course, when people say "don't judge," they mean "don't judge the people I don't judge."

People have no limit to their hypocrisy, so often without ever noticing it.

That makes two interesting points from you today that I haven't thought about before, and which are completely true. Your theological studies are paying off .

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

As a Christian, I believe that the saying "Judge not, lest ye be judged" ought to be taken very, very seriously. We ought never to condemn a person, but yet I continue to do so. I suspect that entering a truly non-judgmental state of life is a lifelong work, something we have to continually strive at. Hopefully, I inch closer and closer to it.

Praise God for the Sacraments .

Originally Posted by Tessar

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, Lief. I understand you don't mean those things happened to you, but your feelings seem to be in turmoil over the issues.

I feel very sad about it, when I think about it.

I need more faith, so that I will pray and trust that God will change these people's hearts or take care of these tragic situations.

Originally Posted by Tessar

My vent is that I can't wait to get a freakin' haircut!!!! Argldybargldy!!!!!!! >.<

Lol!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Gah! Having to walk my brother through his algebra homeworks is not fun. And I've got 100 pages of my own stuff for tomorrow!

[Rían]

Vent - I'm tired of the hypocrisy, double-standards, personal attacks and just plain meanness of the louder type of atheist on the discussion board I'm on. I make a very simple post - like 3 lines - and they just descend in a kind of feeding frenzy and make up all sorts of ridiculous things that I never even said and then mock me for them. I'm about to leave, except I've seen what happens when the Christians leave - they sit around and pat themselves on their backs about how their logic chased those stupid Christians away, which is SUCH a lie that I don't want to give them that satisfaction. There are some very nice, thoughtful atheists there, but the loud, obnoxious ones have taken over recently, and most of the Christians have left - you can't discuss things with people who are determined to NOT discuss things. Their goal seems to be to see how many mean, untrue things they can say about the other side, and then say that it's their logical arguments that chase Christians away. I've already put two of them on ignore, but the nicer atheists have just been too busy to post, and I'm running out of people to talk with. And I like talking with people that have different viewpoints than mine - I like to learn about different things, and be around all sorts of people. It's just sad how just a few bullies can ruin things.

[katya]

Sorry to hear that, Rian. Seems like Atheism is a religion for a lot of people, and they can get pretty mouthy about it. Reddit, where I spend a lot of time, has a subforum of sorts about atheism and it has a very bad reputation.

But if you'd like a nice agnostic to talk about religion with, I'm always up for it.

[Rían]

thanks, katya!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

*grouses about tossing and turning for an hour and a half in bed, with sleep no where in sight*

[Rían]

I hate that!! I hope you get at least some sleep ... and a chance at a nap today!

[Jonathan]

Meh. I just travelled 300 km (and back again) for a job interview and now got this eerie feeling that I could've and should've done much better while I was there...

[katya]

The good news is that the clam chowder was amazingly delicious. The bad news is that it gave me food poisoning. Oh. My. God. It hurt so bad. But I'm better now. I'm way happy that it didn't last long and now I feel healthy and happy. That doesn't make for much of a vent... lol

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by katya

The good news is that the clam chowder was amazingly delicious. The bad news is that it gave me food poisoning. Oh. My. God. It hurt so bad. But I'm better now. I'm way happy that it didn't last long and now I feel healthy and happy. That doesn't make for much of a vent... lol

Vents like that will only make people hate you.

[katya]

Hmm....

Oh no, the stomach aches are back! I think I shall be sick! Also my house is on fire and I have cholera.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by katya

Hmm....

Oh no, the stomach aches are back! I think I shall be sick! Also my house is on fire and I have cholera.

I'm so sorry.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by katya

Also my house is on fire and I have cholera.

Well the latter would explain the stomach aches. You owe the clam chowder an apology