10-07-2005, 04:53 PM | #361 |
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wow
Major So even if scientific studies show that fetuses can feel pain, you think it's a waste of time to inform the mother she has the option of providing pain relief to the fetus as it's being aborted? And people get all in an uproar over dogs or cats being hurt
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-07-2005, 10:45 PM | #362 | |
Elf Lord
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If you compare the life of the average American "poverty-stricken" child with that of the average child elsewhere not in the first world, you'd know that our kids are extremely well provided for. But if you mean that every child ever born should have every potential advantage before you want to stop killing the unborn on the grounds of the (potential) quality of their (potential) life, I am afraid we must part company. After all, wasn't J.S. Bach the 8th child of a couple who had had prviously handicapped children in most of their offspring? And don't they make movies about those types of folks overcoming tremendous odds? Or is life only worth living as long as you have every potential material advantage and you can end it when you get bored, or it might make demands on you that you don't like? I quote Carl Sagan, probably discontextually, "It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English - up to fifty words used in correct context - no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." The dolphins, nor the whales for that matter, do not kill their young in utero. But one frequently gets the non sequiter that abortion is justifiable on the grounds that there are too many humans for the environment (dolphins and whales) so killing humans is okay. (ARE there secret debates in dolphinese about aborting in utero dolphins to make more room for humans, I wonder?) Everyone who earnestly feels that way should commit suicide in logical extension of their beliefs and make more room for dolphins and whales, but NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody else should die, preferably baby humans in utero. And, as Margaret Sanger intended, it can be used to keep the undesirables down and not over-running the WASPs! (Just don't quote that part of her intent!)
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 10-07-2005 at 10:46 PM. |
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10-08-2005, 02:06 AM | #363 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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inked, what's the news/attitudes in your profession in regards to the fetal pain awareness bill?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-08-2005, 06:52 AM | #364 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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of course dolphins are superior, they had one of the first, very own, television series.
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10-09-2005, 04:01 PM | #365 | |
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10-09-2005, 09:59 PM | #366 | |
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As to your declaration that every american ever born has been "extremely well provided for" well what insane measuring stick do you use to calculate that exactly? I know of dozens of cases of kids myself who would have been better off never born when I used to do counseling.
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10-10-2005, 12:16 AM | #367 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I imagine the point was that you never know!
And speaking of guys like Pol Pot, isn't capital punishment just abortion a little later than usual, but with the recipient earning it? IRex, would you vote for passing the fetal pain awareness bill?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-10-2005, 08:34 AM | #368 | ||
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Now... if your concern is just when the fetus is conscious of pain and its meaning then would you be more in support of abortion techniques that minimize any possible "pain" for the fetus? What if we could eliminate pain at any point during the pregnancy? Im going to guess the vast majority of ant-abortion folk wouldnt care. They still wouldnt want to allow abortions. And if thats the case then what exactly is this bill all about? Seems to be yet another stealth attack on roe v wade itself.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-10-2005, 09:37 AM | #369 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Maybe we're misunderstanding each other here... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-10-2005 at 09:45 AM. |
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10-10-2005, 11:32 AM | #370 | |
Elf Lord
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I agree that your rationale never works. And, what standards do you apply to state that a child/person you are counseling would have been better off dead? Is that a concensus we should worrry about implementing? What standards do you apply to state that my observation of first world poverty beats third-world poverty hands down? Should we just abort everyone who will be born into a family that makes less than 100,000 US dollars per year and be done with it? Is life really about material status or is it relationships?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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10-10-2005, 11:54 AM | #371 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(inked, you may have missed my question - what's the feel in your world of doctors/ob-gyns about the fetal pain awareness bill?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-10-2005, 12:08 PM | #372 | |
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10-10-2005, 02:58 PM | #373 |
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I'll join in the current craze of cartoon posting against the opposite side with this:
here and this: here and this: here (the cartoon on top) and this: here What's the feeling here? Do these promote an intelligent discussion? Do these provide a laugh? I don't think so ... I just don't ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-10-2005 at 03:05 PM. |
10-10-2005, 03:10 PM | #374 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(for those who haven't been on Entmoot in the last few days, I'm doing this to try to illustrate a point. People have been posting cartoons lately that knock some of my viewpoints, and the general feeling seems to have been "hey, they're cartoons, lighten up and laugh!" But to me, an insult is an insult, no matter if it's spoken straight to your face or delivered in an indirect (and imo, rather cowardly) manner.)
So am I too touchy about this? It's just that so far, the only cartoons have been against typically conservative/religious positions, and the people posting them have said "everything's cool, they're just cartoons!" - but they haven't been on the receiving end yet. I just think that things can really escalate fast when we start doing that. I love humor, but not derogatory humor. I'm really in a quandry here and am trying to work these thoughts out in my posts - what do you guys think? I just don't know ... but it sure feels wrong to me.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-10-2005 at 03:12 PM. |
10-10-2005, 03:21 PM | #375 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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They are not cartoons drawn to evolk laughter but rather rancor and anger.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 10-10-2005 at 03:27 PM. |
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10-10-2005, 03:23 PM | #376 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I didn't laugh at the other cartoons
And I think these cartoons make very good points.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-10-2005, 03:25 PM | #377 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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If one takes insult with comedy, than one may have more of a problem than can be helped by mere posting.
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10-10-2005, 03:28 PM | #378 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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THIS is what YOU are advocating as your position? Or is this what YOU think is someone elses opinion? Most peculiar, IMO. They seem to promote an ideology but then if that's what you intended it makes sense. If you do not think a woman has the right to do with her body what she chooses, that is your opinion. It doesn't make the woman who does chose to chose wrong. Nor does it make those who agree with her devils.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
10-10-2005, 03:37 PM | #379 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But look, Spock - you're telling me to take cartoons as cartoons, then objecting to the cartoons I put up! How is that fair? That's my whole point - it's very different being on the receiving end of cartoons than the giving end.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-10-2005, 03:41 PM | #380 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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NO I AM NOT telling you to take the cartoons as anything. They are humorous statements by the cartoonists, posted in an attempt to stop the shrill postings of one and all by bringing a smile to the thread.
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