10-24-2008, 09:48 PM | #361 | |
Elf Lord
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Intelligent Design Theory contends that the complexity we see in biological organisms is the result of an intelligent designer, not Darwinian evolution. ID asserts that certain complex organs found in nature could not have evolved. I believe that this theory has some scientific and theological problems. This page describes my objections to intelligent design. http://www.theistic-evolution.com/ Does Theistic Evolution Make Sense? Theistic evolution does not make sense because there is no convincing evidence for either the ?fact? of evolution or its hypothesized mechanism, natural selection. The question then arises: Why would anyone knowingly compromise foundational aspects of their faith to accommodate an unproven model of the history of live and the speculative hypothesis portrayed as its mechanism - especially one with obvious anti-religious implications? http://www.nmidnet.org/theistic_evo.html The whole thing reminds me of the bottle in "Screwtape proposes a toast".
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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10-24-2008, 09:51 PM | #362 | ||||
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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The concept of theistic evolution is inherently devoid of credibility, in the case of Christianity, because the holiest book of said religion says something completely different. Generally, in a non-Christian aspect, I see no obvious problem with a higher being as the prime mover of evolution. But the Christian faith will have to answer to its own book, which contradicts the concept of theistic evolution by word of its own creation-story. I see Inked throwing at me lots of buts and ifs. Firstly, it's not very convincing. Secondly, why should I put your poetic interpretation of the Bible above what actually says there? I am not at all convinced I should.. Intelligent Design is flawed in so many ways. It isn't science. It has no coherent scientific inquiry to show to. It does not in any way add up to the facts of the ground. It's a weak and desperate attempt at derailing the theory of evolution, and luckily, outside of the United States, it is as believed as the Toothfairy. Quote:
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The DNA of human beings, or if you like, homo sapiens (sapiens) is 95% similar to many of our primate cousins in the Great Ape family. Or, if you like, the Hominidae. Homo sapiens sapiens most certainly have descended from an ape. It is not the chimpanzee, or the orangutan or the gorilla. Rather we share a common ancestor. The name of this ape, which is believed to be our common ancestor with some or all of the above-mentioned apes, is the Pierolapithecus catalaunicus. It is extinct, it was a primate, and lastly, it was an ape.
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10-24-2008, 11:41 PM | #363 |
Elf Lord
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-24-2008, 11:55 PM | #364 |
the Shrike
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CH, I am not disputing the biology of humans as belonging to the greater ape family (we do -- Hominidae). I should have been clearer, sorry (AND I should have read the rest of the thread - my bad... I just saw 'descended from apes' and assumed incorrectly that you meant what is generally meant when people who misunderstand the theory of evolution yap on about it).
Anyway, carry on.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 10-25-2008 at 01:30 PM. |
10-25-2008, 12:03 AM | #365 |
Elf Lord
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Don't feel badly, BoP, until he clarified I understood the same way!
By the By, the Royal College has an opinion... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...ffset=0&page=1 And those Brits fon't seem to have your problem with faith and science co-existing... http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/...-fai.html#more
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 10-25-2008 at 12:21 AM. Reason: add references |
10-25-2008, 12:46 PM | #367 |
the Shrike
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Good to know that my degree in anthropology wasn't a complete waste then.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
10-25-2008, 01:14 PM | #368 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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You deny that evolution has and is taking place?
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
10-25-2008, 05:20 PM | #369 | |
Elf Lord
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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10-25-2008, 05:34 PM | #370 |
Elf Lord
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Sorry, CH all that was quotation from the links I posted. The first bit was a theistic evolutionist savaging ID, the second an ID'er dismissing Theistic evolution.
My only original contribution was the screwtape reference, which I found quite witty.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
10-25-2008, 05:36 PM | #371 |
Elf Lord
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Well, you can know peoples' views and still trust them not to express them while on company time.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
10-25-2008, 05:43 PM | #372 |
Elf Lord
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Speaking of "on company time" - two's company! And here they are:
http://www.dawkinslennoxdebate.com/ THE SPECTATOR: Is Richard Dawkins Still Evolving? On Tuesday evening I attended the debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox at Oxford’s Natural History Museum. This was the second public encounter between the two men, but it turned out to be very different from the first. Lennox is the Oxford mathematics professor whose book, God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried God? is to my mind an excoriating demolition of Dawkins’s overreach from biology into religion as expressed in his book The God Delusion -- all the more devastating because Lennox attacks him on the basis of science itself. In the first debate, which can be seen on video on this website, Dawkins was badly caught off-balance by Lennox’s argument precisely because, possibly for the first time, he was being challenged on his own chosen scientific ground. This week’s debate, however, was different because from the off Dawkins moved it onto safer territory– and at the very beginning made a most startling admission. He said: A serious case could be made for a deistic God. This was surely remarkable. Here was the arch-apostle of atheism, whose whole case is based on the assertion that believing in a creator of the universe is no different from believing in fairies at the bottom of the garden, saying that a serious case can be made for the idea that the universe was brought into being by some kind of purposeful force... http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...evolving.thtml EnJoY
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-25-2008, 07:59 PM | #373 | |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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10-26-2008, 08:19 PM | #374 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Last I checked, Genesis was not the holiest book of Christianity. But even if it were, throughout the history of Christianity the Genesis account has been viewed as more symbolic than literal, even before the advent of strong evidence in favour of evolution.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
10-26-2008, 08:29 PM | #375 | |
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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10-27-2008, 09:47 AM | #376 |
Elf Lord
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Umm, CH, who exactly is observing evolution at the moment? And who has written the observations of its occurrence in real time that you are referring to?
Perhaps I misunderstand but I've always heard that it was a deductive theory based on an incomplete fossil record with a varitey of hypothesized missing links needed to confirm it. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is not a valid deductive theoretical construct, in fact, I lean that way, BUT you seem to suggest an observational status that I am unaware of. Please elucidate.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-27-2008, 10:10 AM | #377 | |
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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10-27-2008, 06:41 PM | #378 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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The Bible is not a book. The Bible is a compilation of books. The name means "books". It is erroneous to treat them as a homogeneous whole. Each is its own entity.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
11-09-2008, 02:50 PM | #379 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? This is why america is going to be completely destroyed. Having the nerve to swear on the bible and have on her money, "In god we trust," and pass ungodly laws continuously. Isaiah 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed; Stop going your own way justifying your wickedness, satisfying your own lusts. Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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11-09-2008, 03:05 PM | #380 | |
Elf Lord
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9: For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. 10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11: And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 12: And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. 17: And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity. 18: And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people. 19: And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity. 20: And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless. 21: And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless. Chapter 21 5: They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh. 6: They shall be holy unto their God, and not profane the name of their God: for the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and the bread of their God, they do offer: therefore they shall be holy. 16: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 17: Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. 18: For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19: Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, 20: Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; 21: No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. 22: He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23: Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. So, here we have covered quite a LOT of rules for sexual behavior, plus some random jottings on sexual activity during the menstrual cycle, cursing ones' parents, a few grooming tips, the need for burnt offerings, the exclusion from holy activity anyone with a blemish or deformity (including having a flat nose), and that's only in a bit of two chapters. If God was waiting for Gay marriage to assess our unrighteousness, He certainly ran on at the mouth, in the meantime.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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