Discussion Thread number 2 Of Nazgûl-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I'm open to go either way, but would want a little more freedom. I really want to take those classes! And I don't know how you'll talk Khamul into it - I think that's the hard part... but let me know.

It is entirely up to you, Rian, but may I make a suggestion?

Let rpg-Rian quit Orrodel and go to study, but, please take over Zimra, Lilly's maid as your second character. We definitely need some outsider to interact with the Orrodel family, otherwise the Orrodel life will be dull. Please!
I believe it wil be fun for you to portray a little human maid that is so unlike RPG-Rian!

[The last sane person]

Since when did Marty become an expert in rings? Huh, well, I'll add that in to his bio, adn class list. Ray was the one up in jewelry class.

[Gordis]

Shah, you don't need to be an expert in rings. You were "sent" by Orethurion to make a chat with Aiwendis to distract people from Estelmo.

You spotted an exquisite ring and naturally asked if it were Elven-made. There must have been a lot of elven jewels around, not necessarily rings of power.
Then Aiwendis called you an expert, just to be courteous.

Valandil I liked your posts so very much, how you entered, how you described Ilmenzor & Aiwendis, the greetings, everything. (Actually the Chancellor was dressed in blue, but I loved your "he all in black, she, all in white" so much, that I changed Chancellor's dress in my old post ) Touching concern about Aiwendis's feelings and whether she lived as a Faithful should ! Nice hint about her mother's Southern origins, where mostly King's men lived. The other post, about Orethurion, was also great.

Now, some things were not clear to me. Please, check them and make corrections, if needed.

Originally Posted by Valandil

As he walked, he slowed further, and turned less from side-to-side, because walking itself became an effort. He began to feel probed, on all sides and by multiple minds. He wished that he could sit, due to the effort of keeping up his defenses. Who here could probe his mind like this? How MANY here could do this? he wondered.

But all at once, there came into his mind, as though a shout, from where he knew not, something like, 'SILENCE!... he reads.' And then all was still once more in his mind, and he could return more of his focus to his walk down the outer hall.

Now WHO probed Val's mind on all sides? Really how MANY there were?
I know only of Khamul and Udu that could try that. I don't think Mahtaliel tried as well, or Earniel. As for the Chancellor, or Aiwendis, they would not attack so blatantly. And if it was the Chancellor, who then shouted SILENCE? All this is a bit strange to me.

Originally Posted by Valandil

'And then Isildur said, "King's son..." ' Estelmo went on. Oreturion noticed that there was a growing hub-bub in thought-speech about the room - growing further as Estelmo's story progressed. Perhaps a distraction was needed, he thought.

Another strange thing is this "mental chatter" or "growing hub-bub in thought-speech" that you mention several times. Again, who talked with whom? Khamul with Udu? Highly unlikely. The Chancellor kept his mind shut. Remember, even in the empty Reception Hall he didn't talk to Aiwendis mentally, but used simple gestures.
I believe, what everyone trained would hear, were the unguarded thoughts of unguarded people, like the Governor, MM's, other girls, etc.

Originally Posted by Valandil

What was he doing? Recounting that story of the Gladden? Many of the Easterners were gathering to hear it.

There is only one Easterner at the Reception, Khamul. Udu is plainly 100% Numenorean. Yes, he came from the East, but he has not got the chance to tell about it to anybody but the other nazgul. Lilly, Penny and Viv are not at the Reception. So, who are those Easterners, Val?

I believe you better make Ilmenzor ask Estelmo to tell his story.

[Rían]

Gordis - rpg-Rian has returned her food and picked up some fruit instead

I might take up Zimri, but I've hesitated to pick up more characters because I'm new at this and because it might take up too much time. I'll think about it, though.

[Butterbeer]

well, i think that Valandil the birthday boy wrote very well even by his standards, i like the continuity of the generalised mental "chatter": he walked into a very crowded and humming environment in those terms, and where it is general i feel it both excellent drama, writing and leads to very open and exciting development (regarding the verious characters projecting their minds)

however i agree totally Gordis that the shouting scene is odd, (though i liked it very much): certainly the morgul lord would not have done so, for 2 key reasons:

1) it is not in character nor advisable in any extreme

2) by doing so (since whoever mentally shouted, already KNEW he was reading) was being indiscreet in the utmost (therefore it cannot be the Cap'n)

also if he knows he (at best) MAY hear it, then the question is then asked how will he (the King) interpret that? it's one thing to think someone or maybe 2 are probing .... but that call very much implies a team-effort, i.e silence all! ... and that is a whole different ball-game!

so, it could not be the arch-chancellor .... must be someone else!

Now, i like it very much, it adds greatly to our story, questions are, who was it, and will valandil and (unkown to ALL but valandil) Mr O ... take it to mean a general call for silence, cus so much is concentrated in one momment and one room, or will they (when they have time) then wonder about the implied team-work???

Course, as i see it though the 7 (of nine) here assembled are technically a team under their very kind-hearted captain ... BUT they are also semi-musketeers : ALL for (the) ONE! (if possible) ...

[Gordis]

Oh, Rian, most of us are new at this. I certainly am .

Normally the story either takes place in the Uni, or in Orrodel. So you will be able to post either for one character, or the other. Zimra's role will be quite small. Just watch the happenings at Orrodel and say: Ahh!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

Course, as i see it though the 7 (of nine) here assembled are technically a team under their very kind-hearted captain ... BUT they are also semi-musketeers : ALL for (the) ONE! (if possible) ...

The point is that at the reception there are only FOUR of the NINE!

Khamul and Udu will not speak to each other even mentally!
Aiwendis is tightly controlled by the Captain.
So, again who may chat by thought to deserve a reprimand?
Who may chat later?
Is that likely that ordinary nobles of Thatbad interact by mental speech?

I agree with all your other points, BB.

[Butterbeer]

blimey! you've edited that post a bit gor, that's confusing!

well rian, you need to take your own course now you are established in the rpg, i DO see that you need more of a story and rpg opportunities other than those you took on to fit in initially, so make your own mind up! (...wait for it ... .. my advice ... would be develop rian as your main central character however you want and at least temporarily cover the orrodel position with a small, or semi-public character in the meantime)

though Gor, no rpg is a walk in the park, but as central planks go... i see the plot being tharbad wide, not merely the university (though one central venue) nor orrodel, nor anywhere singly to a total degree ... but we will develop many more tharbad locations and intrigues ....

(all of which MAY cause willow's character to *twitch* ... )

heh, SHAH (Guv') ... yeah i read it as Mr O sending a fourth way mental suggestion to Marty in an attempt to stop estelmo talking about isuldir's death at gladden ... but it took an unexpected turn ... and marty was just curious and polite (if not somewhat charmed by Aiwendis?)

Good luck with all the pain-in-the Ass movin' lotesse ... see you back here soon, as Gor says it'll take a bit to go through the reception anyroad .... so far i haven't even written in bumble's entrance (he trips over the carpet) nor quite finished me discussion project chapters neither (sorry val .. will try in a bit!)


best all, BB

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The point is that at the reception there are only FOUR of the NINE!

Khamul and Udu will not speak to each other even mentally!
Aiwendis is tightly controlled by the Captain.
So, again who may chat by thought to deserve a reprimand?
Who may chat later?
Is that likely that ordinary nobles of Thatbad interact by mental speech?

I agree with all your other points, BB.

nah, the 7 of 9 refered in general to the musketeers all for ONE, not the reception ....

we have aiwendis scanning and being told to stop by the cap'n, him doing it subtely no doubt, Malthliel low-level duelling with both Udu and Khamul, Valandil deliberatly being attuned and wary as he enters and Mr. O doing his job scanning ... so val's writing seems fine in a general sense, it would have been a bit more than usual (at the VERY least)

so ... either Val keeps it but changes the imperious "Silence!" which implies the arch-chancellor, or re-writes it slightly to some sort of "ssssh! all" or whatever ...

maybe it was khamul, udu or ... Aiwendis in a loyal but misguided spur of the momment thing?


the whole ring thing was great (once you stepped in with your nimble footwork!) so yeah, be clear about it but no problem methinks ... only the Naz assembled went quiet at that for any KNOWN reason ... the rest IF they could pick up on it were just confused ... and intrigued ... thus wonderful rpg avenues open up for all the players!

Yes, Rian and Earniel may have picked up a low-level hum ... it was so charged in there! ... even bumble stopped thinking of which wine to drink for a second!

[Gordis]

To Val and BB

No, don't misunderstand me, BB, (and Val!), I didn't imply that all must be rewritten or something.

I see it this way
The four nazgul and Val and Orethurion were scanning for THOUGHTS. And there must have been an awful din of thought-noise FROM THE PUBLIC AROUND. Thoughts, not CHAT!

Girls were thinking: Oh what a handsome King, and what a beautiful cloak he has and what would it be like to be a Queen...
Nobles were thinking: he seems so young and kind, perhaps he will grant me a boon or a salary raise or perhaps I could make him marry my daughter...
Elves were thinking: those girls who call us, Elves, carrion-birds, think of the King as a piece of meat to swallow...
Udu was thinking of some silly songs to distract Khamul
Khamul was considering how to spite Earniel and Rian
and so on...

Then the King felt SEVERAL (not multiple) minds probing him. Probing gently, mind you. Meeting the wall, and sensing that Val spotted their attention, they withdraw. Please, no shout "Silence"!

And later again, whenever one tries to scan, he hears a din of THOUGHTS, not a din of CHAT!
That is all there is to correct, IMHO. Plus "Many easterners" thing. Just please change to "new professors".

And yes, Val, make the Chancellor introduce Aiwendis and his staff- professors Galadannun, Mahtiliel, Bumbledore, Maethor etc. It should come after the King introduces Estelmo, at the end of the first post.

Val, your post is MOST important for the story, that's why I ask you to make it unambiguous. No offence, right?
I truly loved your post!

[Willow Oran]

One of the nice things about role-playing is the way it develops the story as it grows. It's inadvisable to be constantly pointing out what would or wouldn't be realistic because every single player is going to have a slightly different view of what's going on. That's the whole point of having several players, so that the writing isn't limited to one style or view-point.

My point is, that since the general murmer ofmental communication was kept consistant after Val introduced it, it shouldn't be considered unrealistic for the situation, regardless of whether it is or is not totally plausible and in character for everyone. Enough of us went along with it that it became plausible and in character even if it wasn't so to begin with.

The trick when one's personal view of what could/should have happen conflicts with what another player wrote is to use one's character to react to the situation either to play along with it or to manipulate it back to where it ought to be.

In other words, our posts are exactly as they should be, don't worry so much about that one moment, just concentrate on the story and you'll find that it'll work itself out as the plot continues to grow.

[Earniel]

Quick post before I turn in. I kept up the mentions of mental chatter because I saw them as a natural by-product of packing a lot of Numenoreans into a place. With the mental chatter I of course meant the thoughts of everyone present. Because it will sound like that with all these people packed in here.

On this reception we have the more noble population of Arnor which probably also means the more pure-blooded and the more mentally capable. I went on from the assumption that Elves, nazgul and the King (and the two advisors) had the strongest abilities of the whole group so naturally they would pick up more than the less trained nobles around them. The nobles and their daughters may have assumed they were not overheard because they themselves do not posses such sharp mental hearing. But our 'select' group will hear quite a bit of back ground noice, whether or not they can block it out completely.

The 'silence!' may well have been from Valandil's mentor Orethurion who saw that his young king was becoming overwhelmed and decided to intervene, as he did later by influencing Marty. I was actually thinking that from the beginning that it was Orethurion and not the Chancellor that demanded silence. The point is, I don't think it needs to be changed. It can work. But it's up to Val to say what he meant it to be in the first place.

[Udukhaturz]

This is a quick announcement that Udukhaturz (The Seventh Nazgul) now has a bio in the Formal Info Thread, Post #14. There have been so many great posts here today that I have not been able to read all of them. I will be back later.

[Gordis]

Well if "Silence" was from Orethurion, and "chatter" meant "thoughts" than I can't object to it.

But probably a clarification is needed, as we all read the same post differently?

Well it is all for Val to decide. I have written the beginning of the Chancellor's POV, I will post it now, though all this is still controversial, and I plan to continue it further when I get clearer understanding of the matter. Feel free to criticise. I am always willing to edit!


Udu Great Info!
I liked your post in the Main as well. Quiet Udu probed no one's mind and kept silent. So one chatty nazgul less. It must be all Khamul's doings!

[Butterbeer]

aye' i am knackered .. have tried to post the whole discussion thingy for passing of grey company in one go - pretty much winging it and have failed ... though i made a starting foundation ... - lack of time and sleep ... else i'm sure i could have done it ...

will be very much pushed for much time till monday or tues, though i will have a bit here and there hopefully ....


*yawns heavily* - gotta go home and get some sleep...


anyway - yeah no problem Gor ... i think Willow wrote it very well though above ... that's rpg ... and the beauty of it ... though i think we should be clear in terms of it being VERY out of character if was intended as the Arch-chancellor .... (the shout)

to quote Hamlet (the play) ... 'it's in the air...!'

certainly an interesting debate

Earniel: yeah interesting take ... Mr O! could work i guess... (though i bet ya' a chocolate frog King Val wasn't thinking of mr O when he wrote it ...)

UDU: ref: info thread (the street) good oh, will read it tommorow. (hope you remembered to say hello to the watch who keep the street's safe ... and support the local brewery trade )

Val: mr O and estelmo would be good to have some info in there too: (remember to say a wotcha! to the Watch, too! )

hope you had a good birthday.

Night all and Best, BB

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Udu Great Info!
I liked your post in the Main as well. Quiet Udu probed no one's mind and kept silent. So one chatty nazgul less. It must be all Khamul's doings!

... aye' i vote for khamul ... or aiwendis as an over enthusiastic error!

though mr O may work??

if khamul we can join up the attacks causing various players POV confusion when he recieves 2 attacks at the same momment!

(heh, no offence TD... you are doing a great job!)

anyroad, goota go sleeeeeeep!

[Lotesse]

Gordis, I really enjoyed that last post, very much. It made things seem clearer, and more understandable. I particularly liked the way you described each of the Kings' men, because now I have a nice, clear idea in my head as to what these guys look like, what their personalities are like, what their relationship to the King is, and stuff like that. Sometimes, this story seems too unclear in parts to me, partly because I have not read the Silmarillion through yet, or Unfinished Tales, and partly because there are a myriad of new characters, yet few character bios available to refer to.

[Udukhaturz]

"Udu Great Info! I liked your post in the Main as well. Quiet Udu probed no one's mind and kept silent. So one chatty nazgul less. It must be all Khamul's doings!" - Gordis

Thank you. Udu tried to probe no one's mind and guarded his own carefully. He hoped if anything that his nonsense song might be so irritating to Khamûl that Khamûl would turn to someone else's mind. The song, as a matter of fact, was at the top of his mental thoughts and was basically "public" for anyone who had the ability to read.

"UDU: ref: info thread (the street) good oh, will read it tomorrow. (hope you remembered to say hello to the watch who keep the street's safe ... and support the local brewery trade )" - BB

BB, Udu is planning to venture out on the streets of Tharbad after the reception is over. He will doubtless encounter the watch somewhere on his meanderings, and will be overjoyed to learn about all the taverns in the town. He is considering looking for some unsavory tavern down near the docks (not too close to the water, but near). In the back of his mind, he is thinking about employing some local thugs who can keep their mouths shut, the kind that would stick a dagger in someone's back for a few coins. He considers that they might be useful for spying on a few of his fellow non-Nazgul professors.

Professor Mahtaliel is a problem, for she could quickly read through the thoughts of any lout who would get close. Udu might have to spy upon her himself.

King Val, Marty and Ray could soon read the thugs' thoughts, too, so Udu will probably turn his goons someplace else. There must be a few human professors on this campus.

Probably what will happen, though, is that he will consider his spying options so limited that he will send them to spy on the MM's, but he would rather spy upon them himself.

And the Chancellor was trying to improve the image of the college from that of a party school to one of serious learning?

Great posts, everyone.

[Lotesse]

Marty & Ray read thoughts too, now? What, is EVERYone in Tharbad a mind-reader? It's starting to make me dizzy! If everyone & their brother and sister is a mind-reader, then the whole concept of mind-reading and thought projection kind of loses its special, interesting appeal, to me anyway. The whole rpg starts turning into an en masse inner story of sorts. Does anyone actually SPEAK rather than try butting into each other's minds all the bleedin' time? The mind reading thing is just out of conTROL around here! Lol!!

[Willow Oran]

No, not everyone is constantly butting into other people's minds. But it is plausible that even those who couldn't read minds but who had fairly minds would be able to shield their own minds, or would be somewhat aware of other people trying to read their's.