UK Politics

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

not going SNP, then Gaffer?

[Janny]

Not sure they have a candidate standing in Oxford. :P It wouldn't matter anyway - students make for safe Lib Dem seats don't they?

Do you people genuinely vote for a leader then? I've always assumed the first instinct is to vote for the best candidate for your local area (hence the Lib Dem's 'pick a local issue' style campaign)

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i look at the whole, although this is the first election i am old enough to vote, but that's beside the point

the leader must be respectable, and trustworty (so that's blair, howard and kilroy, and wossis name from bnp out then)
the party must be good in terms of it's policies and manifesto (so that's knocked a few out, labour, tory, UKIP, veritas, bnp,)
and the local candidates must be right also (so that's labour and tory out for me then)

the only one left of the big three in terms of all three criterion is therefore Lib Dem

[The Gaffer]

There's so many of us down here I might win. The Scottish Numpties' Party would stand for:
- compulsory Haggis for school dinners
- elimination of duty on whisky
- NHS scrapped and replaced with tholing it while grumbling incessantly to friends and family
- emigration to be made compulsory for Phil Collins
- cultural stereotyping to be a capital offence

Actually used to be an SNP supporter; voted for 'em in 92. Labour were so pathetic and corrupt in Scotland under Thatcher (e.g. Poll Tax) that the SNP were the only credible opposition. At least if we were independent then we'd never have another Tory government.

These days, I am less enthusastic about it (even though it would make visiting the rellies harder). Nationalism has so many negative sides that I find it rather distasteful, and the party seems to have lost its impetus since Devolution. They have also been shown to be pretty incompetent when it comes to doing anything other than shouting from the sidelines.

Devolution is good though. Wait till there's a Tory government in Westminster with a Labour-LibDem coalition in Holyrood and watch the sparks fly.

[The Gaffer]

Agree with your broad list, LCoU. Good to see such clear thinking in a first-time voter!

One I would add would be a credibility factor. Here, Labour are strong (I feel that they have, at least in part, delivered on education, constitutional reform, health, economy and human rights) while the LibDems are less so (though they have a reasonable track record from the coalition in Edinburgh). IMO, the greatest achievement of the past 8 years is that it is now considered political suicide to do anything other than advocate greater investment in public services.

That's the nub of it for me: Labour have the most important parts working in the right direction, with better to come (esp in health: the big thing here is renegotiating the consultants' and GPs' contract, which means that the NHS will, for the first time ever, be able to be managed properly in the future). However, their leader took us into an illegal and immoral war with his nose stuck right up Dubya's jacksie. They also have a small selection of pretty nasty bits of legislation peppered about the place to appease the City and the Daily Mail.

Did you know they're going to privatise the Export Controls Organisation (the government agency in charge of making sure that UK arms dealers don't breach any sanctions)?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by the gaffer

Did you know they're going to privatise the Export Controls Organisation (the government agency in charge of making sure that UK arms dealers don't breach any sanctions)?

no i didnt how more ridiculous can you get? , what next? have mark thatcher as CEO of it? jeez...

[Draken]

This really could be an interesting election (worth a separate thread, anyone?).

Here's my take on it:

Labour

Two terms in office leaves them inevitably with mistakes to defend. Completely botched the lead-up to the Iraq War but as our casualties were light and foreign affairs don't usually dominate public thinking will probably get away with it. Boom and bust cycle replaced with generally steady economic growth, sustained low inflation and low unemployment. However, as memories of just how bad a recession can be fade, this might not count for as much as they think.

Inherited the Thatcherite idea that by concentrating on the accountability of public services you automatically improve their delivery. Thus while spending on NHS and Education has increased as promised, much of this has gone on establishing indicator systems and inspection agencies (plus straight profit to private 'partners'). Eg education: in the last year £30m was spent on examinations, £300m on OFSTED and £1000m on delivering the national literacy and numeracy programmes.

Tony Blair's tirelessly populist approach has palled with many, and the split between him and Gordon Brown is undeniable. With the Tories recovering from their protracted post-1997 disarray, Labour are faced with holding the centre ground voters they took from them while trying to convince traditional supporters that they still know the words to the Red Flag, honest.


Conservatives

Newer voters won't remember just how inept the Tory governments of the 90s were, and older ones might be mellowing. After 8 years out of office they can look new and envigourating, with Howard's gravitas an antidote to Blair's appearances on 'Good Morning', 'Ant & Dec' etc etc. Very obviously basing their approach on Bush's re-election campaign. However in the UK there is no Christian Right to fall back on so they are targeting the next best thing - Daily Mail readers. Hence selective picking of crime statistics (which overall have been showing a downward trend for a while) to make law and order an issue and the focusing on immigration. Has spotted that the tabloids are generally delighted to have found a term for deriding foreigners that they can legally use - 'asylum seeker' - and is exploiting that sentiment. A tad hypocritocal when Mr Howard's family arrived in the UK as - erm - asylum seekers, but nobody seems to have picked up on that.

Balancing a serious-minded image with tabloid politics is a tricky act, but so far they're managing it.


Lib-Dems

Always popular largely because they haven't formed a government since WWI so can't be blamed for anything (mind you I still have issues with the safety standards on the Titanic...). But when push comes to shove, not that many people can actually envisage them running the country. Plus the usual problem that their support is spread evenly over the country, with the first-past-the-post electoral system favouring parties with clusters of support.

If they can carry on the gains from the last election they could end up with the balance of power in a hung parliament. If those gains prove to be down to tactical voters who will desert them in favour of a good old fashioned Labour v Tory slugfest, they're sunk.


Incidentally I probably don't know what I'm talking about so you can probably ignore all the above.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

isn't it interesting that if we had PR, then Lib Dems would probably be the party with the highest support?

[Draken]

Well, not quite, I think they're on 20% at the moment with the big two in the 30s. But they WOULD hold the balance of power. And of course if they looked like having a say in government through a PR system, their popularity might rise I suppose.

[The Gaffer]

Might go the other way too. I suspect some voters might baulk if they actually thought there was a chance of them getting into power.

There's a pretty good chance that will happen anyway, though. It has been noticeable that the LibDems aren't being too rude about Labour and Bliar even though, on the policy front, they are more different from Labour than the Tories are. I think they're hoping for a hung parliament and Charlie gets to be Minister in Charge of the Drinks Trolley.

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

isn't it interesting that if we had PR, then Lib Dems would probably be the party with the highest support?

Exactly! Proportional representation is the way to go; i still can't see why, in a so-called democratic society, we cannot have a fully democratic electoral system

I know that it could mean that one of the 2 leading parties would lose out in terms of their majority in the commons, but surely it would be the best system all round?

I'm definitely not going to vote labour (opposition to the war and mistrust in Blair being two main reasons); i'd rather not vote tory because i don't really agree with their ideology. I would like to vote Lib Dems, but it could mean a wasted vote because of a lack of proportional representation. However, I would vote for anything to get Blair out....

[The Gaffer]

Well, I guess it goes back to what somebody said earlier on in the thread about voting for an MP that represents your local area, rather than for the party. PR would tend to break that link.

One of the things I hated about Labour in Scotland was how they seemed to view political office as a reward for loyalty rather than a privilege. (This was because they had been the dominant party for so long.) PR would probably make that worse if MPs were coming off party lists rather than getting directly elected.

Having said that, PR would of course mean less domination by one political party.

Me, I'd go for a PR-based upper house, with a first-past-the-post lower house. You could improve its democraticness by using Single Transferable Voting (ha ha, then the tories would NEVER get back in).

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

from which house would we choose the president? what with compulsory abolition of the monarchy

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

from discussion regarding monarchs in Chas and Millie's Marriage thread

Head of State: HM The Queen
Head of Gov't: Prime Minister Rt Hon Anthony Blair MP
Upper House: House of Lords
Lower House: House of Commons

The PM belongs to the commons, The party with the majority form Her Majesty's Government, next party are Her Majesty's Opposition, currently HM Gov't is Labour, and the Opposition is Conservative, Anthony Blair MP is Leader of the Labour Party, Rt Hon John Prescott MP is Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, the Leader of the Conservative party is the Rt Hon Michael Howerd MP

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

of course it should be:
head of gov't: Rt Hon Charles Kennedy MP
Gov't: Liberal Democrats
Opposition: LCA

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by Draken

Lib-Dems

Always popular largely because they haven't formed a government since WWI so can't be blamed for anything (mind you I still have issues with the safety standards on the Titanic...).

Don't know about blame, but they can have the credit for the beginning of the welfare state.. the Liberals anyway, if not the Lib Dems.

LCoU, do you know how many candidates the LCA have standing in the election?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i think that it's 8, can't remember for sure

and with regards to credit, surely there is a reason to elect them right there^

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

ok here we are - The LCA have 19 parliamentary candidates this year
here is the official website of the LCA UK

and credit i was talking bout liberals, not lca, seeing as how lca haven't formed a gov't before

[sun-star]

Wow, they've got someone standing in Canterbury! I wonder, is that for the student vote, or do they think there are lots of cannabis users in Kent...

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

well, there's no on standing for bridgwater, so my vote is worthless
oh for this to be the year after next and i could've stood
damn being born two years early

and we seem to be safe tory
with an MP that openly supports all hings i abhorr such as hunting