11-18-2005, 06:00 PM | #361 | ||||
Advocatus Diaboli
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11-18-2005, 06:13 PM | #362 | ||||
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We had the option of invading, which would have cost countless Japanese civilian lives, countless lives of their troops, and millions of ours, or we could drop the nuclear explosives. It was a question of choosing between two evils, with no third option. It also was not a religious attack. The man who flew the plane might have been religious, and Truman also may have been religious. Yet religion was not the reason the attack was made. To Brownjenkins: I'd like to see Hitler raise one quote from the Bible to validate his point.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-18-2005 at 06:17 PM. |
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11-18-2005, 06:23 PM | #363 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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11-18-2005, 06:41 PM | #364 | |
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Just as islamophobia seems to be getting a grip of us in the West, muslims in some parts of the world aren't too fond of Christians. We can't take for granted that the Muslim world sees us with the same eyes we do when we look upon ourselves. If they did, there would be much less anti-Christian feelings. And the other way too - if we could put ourselves in the Muslims' position and see the world through their eyes, we wouldn't be so eager to accuse the Muslims as a group and blame their religion for the acts of terrorists.
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 11-18-2005 at 07:04 PM. |
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11-18-2005, 06:42 PM | #365 | ||
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/4686893.stm There were lots of these kind of rallies all over the country, mostly organised by Muslim groups. Search for "London bombings" in the news section and you'll see reports from all the major British cities of Muslims uniting to condemn violence. I don't think these events have to be huge to be meaningful. Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 11-18-2005 at 06:48 PM. |
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11-18-2005, 06:56 PM | #366 | |||
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Um... "Christian terrorists" are actually the good guys? The Klu Klux Klan, logic-impaired sperm-misfires that they are, believe their extreme hatred and racism and acts of terror are supported by God. The KKK are Christian terrorists.
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11-18-2005, 07:02 PM | #367 | |
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11-18-2005, 07:14 PM | #368 | ||
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Oh. Never mind then.
Inked brought up a good point in the "what religion are you" thread. (Sorry to cross the threads here, but it was a good one.) He said he doesn't judge a religion by its fanatics. That is an excellent point. Christianity shouldn't be judged on the KKK, Islam shouldn't be judged on 9/11, and Hinduism shouldn't be judged on the fundamentalists who jailed Deepa Mehti (she is released now). But why is it that Islam so often is judged on a few extremists? There are a lot of cultural factors at work as well here. People who are poor and see the United States as the enemy because of Iraq or other actions might actually view the terrorists as heroes - not because they're terrorists and also Muslim, but because they are people attacking their enemies. (I'm not saying it's okay to condone terrorism, I'm saying people have non-religious reasons to do so.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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11-18-2005, 10:51 PM | #369 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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11-19-2005, 10:26 AM | #370 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 11-19-2005 at 10:33 AM. |
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11-19-2005, 10:33 AM | #371 | ||
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 11-19-2005 at 10:34 AM. |
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11-19-2005, 12:52 PM | #372 | |
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the point... combine religion and power, and you get trouble... the most violent times in the history of catholicism were when catholic leaders held the most power... thankfully, that is not the case anymore, though the US scares me sometimes the same holds true for muslims, and to a lesser degree jews... the issue is not the faith itself, but the fact that there are states based upon specific faiths... if the US became a "christian state", i have little doubt that we would be just as ruthless enforcing our interpretation of "christianity" as the popes of the middle ages were, or hitler of the 20th century was
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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11-19-2005, 01:58 PM | #373 | |
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 11-19-2005 at 02:28 PM. |
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11-20-2005, 07:08 PM | #374 |
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The issue is NOT a lesser one for Islam, BJ. Brush up on the pogroms against Christians in the Ottoman Empire. Or, more currently, check out what is happening in African nations ruled by Islamics. It is called persecution, murder, and conversion at threat of death. But it is ignored by the media mainstream. And I refresh your memory on the recent (last week's) TIME and NEWSWEEK articles about assassinations organized by how many Arab countries...?
HOw about those Hindu's offering burnt offerings of Christian converts if they do not recant? I note too the many Christian martyrs and missionaries and professed who have built hospitals and sanitariums to provide for the ill and dispossessed. I'd be happy to know of the parallels in Islamic or Hindu countries in their native and dominant religious traditions. Whose the equivalent of Mother Teresa in these venues, for example?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 11-20-2005 at 07:09 PM. |
11-20-2005, 08:43 PM | #375 | |
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Now... was I in every cockpit of all the aircraft dropping countless tons of bombs over Dresden that night so that i could provide you with some verifiable proof that someone mentioned the name Jesus during this operation? No I wasnt. So I suppose you can be smug in the fact that I cant provide direct evidence of that small point that they were "calling upon the name of their god" while engaging in this event (although I bet a series of interviews with some veterans could in fact prove this. And no you can remain smug because Im not going to do that either...). But if you ask me thats missing the larger point once again about civilian deaths caused in vast numbers by christian nations being interpreted as such by muslims who have that perspective. Is it really ok to kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians whether one mentions the name of god or not? Are you making the argument that we are so much better then them because we kill civilians from miles up in the sky and we dont kill ourselves in the process like they do? And that since I cant PROVE that a pilot said anything about god while dropping bombs on innocent people that its ok to do that? Or is this simply about defending christianity at all costs and noting that muslims do horrible things in the name of islam all the time but that christians have never done any such thing? If a muslim told you that they saw Dresden as an example of Christian terrorism would you tell them that they are wrong?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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11-21-2005, 05:55 AM | #376 | |
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11-21-2005, 06:31 AM | #377 | |||
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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11-21-2005, 12:24 PM | #378 | |
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religion, due in a large part to it's focus on the "afterlife", allows people to self-justify horrors they would never accept if viewed from a pragmatic pov
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11-21-2005, 02:31 PM | #379 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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11-21-2005, 02:36 PM | #380 |
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You didn't quote all of what BJ said. I think he meant that even Christianity (and Islam) has been a source of negative contributions to society (just as it has contributed with positive things). In that perspective, Christianity has historically been just as bad as any other religion because it too has resulted in bad stuff.
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 11-21-2005 at 02:39 PM. |
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