Discussion Thread Number 5 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Rían]

sounds fun, Shah! (the Viv thing)

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

*goes and reads it*
I like it better, GW I think too much munching of people inside the city will cause general alarm that we don't want yet.

Thanks, Rian!

[Rían]

y'welcome

I was thinking, maybe part of the issue here is that this wasn't a new rpg when it started - it came from (from what I can tell) kind of a fun, Nazgul-centered thing where they pretty much did what they wanted, and I'm guessing the "good" characters were public or were not important or developed. Am I right? Anyway, here it's different, and that makes it a bit harder, but a lot more challenging and rewarding and interesting, too, IMO. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

So stick with it, Gordie and other FOEADs - IMO, it's a good idea and worth hashing out all the details, and we'll be sure to run our ideas by you guys if they involve how your characters would act or think.

(Gordie, did you notice I got in a kiss between Rian and the ML? She's awaiting his love-struck serenade ... )

(ps - if you miss the old one, maybe make a fun "Nazguls Gone Wild" type of rpg where the "good" characters are all public and can get knocked off right and left in a kind of South Park style , then you guys can stay here for the more serious one but blow off steam in that one! )

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

There is already an all Nazgûl one called Fellowship of the Ringwraiths, based on LotR but how it would have been if the Nazgûl had come out of the War of the Ring better.

[The last sane person]

Yes, well, this isnt that RPG, which is kinda hard to keep in mind since its the same characters and, for the FOEADs, hopefully the same outcome. But either way, please note, the good guys are gonna swamp your pirates. We aren't fools, in game or out!

So, beware two 7'4" giants swinging heavy bits of sharp metal. 600 pirates...that's no teaparty. Secondly, do the pirates know why they are there? If the answer is yes, do they really care that they are only trying to scare Val into building a fleet? Probably not.

They have shown their serious intent by already sacking a town, taking slaves and razing a village. (Shah's first priority once he finds out is to free the captives) I hope we at Tharbad have a good fire department.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

Interesting, did Morgoth ask Turgon's permission before attacking Gondolin?

Turgon wasn't RPG'ing with Morgoth at the time. And if they were I'm thinking the mods would have closed that game down instantly for repeated 'flaming'.

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

I agree with Gordis and Serenoli. The FOGALS have put to us, FOEADS, lots of conditions: don't kill any of the characters, don't burn Tharbad, let us have some warning... ALL of them were accepted.

Not killing other people's characters without permission is pretty much an unwritten but basic rule of role playing games on the Entmoot, and has been that way for as long as I remember. Not destroying Tharbad seems a given to me if we want to continue this game in Tharbad. Neither are particulary hard conditions IMO and they pretty much count for EVERYONE, not just the bad guys.

In retrospect we could say we allowed you nazgul to have a lot of powers you normally wouldn't have. But that discussion has been done to the death and I don't think that keeping further score of what argument the other party allegedly 'won' or 'lost' is going to get us anywhere.

Now let's see how we can make this work so all parties involved are satisfied or get at least part of what they want to accomplish. I gather most people are for the game, if some conditions are met. The fight will in the end most affect Valandil's character so I think we should take his objections into account. I'm going to put forth a suggestion which I think will be a good compromise, feel free to disagree or to adjust.

Twelve pirate ships approach Tharbad. Valandil's warning system starts beeping, he dispatches a part of Tharbad's troops to deal with it. The operation is kept secret as not to upset the public. No need to cause needless panic, is there? So the bonfire will go on as planned.

Most of the pirates and their ships are dealt with (sorry Gordis, it looks like it comes down to ship numbers again). Some (say about between 50 and 100 or something) managed to slip away before Tharbad's forces attacked the pirates. Suppose they left their ships and approached by land or changed to, or hijacked fishing boats or something. The Chancellor might have made provisions for that.

Those pirates still can attack Tharbad, the damage then cannot be extensive but Tharbad still can get a fight that ends with the pirates being effectively obliterated. Parts of the squadron of Tharbad and say Mahtaliel would have warning of the possibility of pirates getting through, the public would not.

Would this be more workable for everyone?

A question of my own, if we go through with the attack: where will all the festivities and bonfire take place? All over the city, on the rochdol field?

[The last sane person]

*bows to Earniel* Thank you for articulating that. I fully agree, after all, Val is king, and if this goes off under his noes, he will be tarnished. Remember, he has most loyal Shah, Ray and Marty to carry out his orders.

Hang on, I think that Shah will send his falcon first, including the dispatch warning the good guys of the slaves taken on the pirate ships, so when they attack they dont sink them outright.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

I agree with Gordis and Serenoli. The FOGALS have put to us, FOEADS, lots of conditions: don't kill any of the characters, don't burn Tharbad, let us have some warning... ALL of them were accepted.
But now all the agreements are shaken: we can't have a fight in Tharbad! Because the King is against!

Well, Val, you may be King in the game, but sorry you are not one in RL.

Let us VOTE.

I am for the fight in Tharbad!

Yes, and I'm backing up my evil homegirls here - Nazgirls of the Moot Unite!! because while what Val outlines in part seems quite sensible and reasonable, so does what Gordis counters with, and the distinction is that Gordis' way looks like a lot more potential fun, just as long as it doesn't turn into a real worrisome killing-anduncontrolled-burning-and-rape sort of thing. Just as long as it doesn't become world war III in Tharbad for the next month in RL RPG time, and we can't abandon our classes and stuff. It'll be fun!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

Hang on, I think that Shah will send his falcon first, including the dispatch warning the good guys of the slaves taken on the pirate ships, so when they attack they dont sink them outright.

Haven't you read Udu's post, Shah? All the slaves were sent back to Umbar right from the village at the mouth of the Gwathlo. The ships going upriver have no slaves on them.

[The last sane person]

No, i didnt catch that part...I dunno, it just doesn't ring true to me. Something is off. But I give up with you lot, do as you wish, so long as I can kill something and leave with dignity.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Serenoli

I hope not Lily, though, cos she'll definitely poison Viv's mind against my poor Tol!

Oh, fear not, dear Serenoli! Viv has completely a mind of her own, and cannot be swayed or "convinced" by anyone regarding anything; she makes her own mind up. Never mind the fact that she knows her Nazgul family pretty well, but esPECially Lilly whom she has a funny little soft spot for, always wanting to keep her (and Aiwendis too, but she's better at taking care of her own self) out of harm's way. Viv knows Lil's game pretty much inside & out, but she won't admit that she does, she'll just always be "in the shadows" so to speak, trying to keep a protective sisterly eye on crazy Lil. Viv takes everything Lil says with a grain of salt, you know, not only that but Viniglaen is possessed of the advanced ability to see through all bullsh**; i.e., she can't be lied to. It's in her bio from like the first time I ever started writing her.

[Gordis]

Earniel, thank you for posting your idea. It might work to everyone's satisfaction.

But one thing - you all speak of Val's warning beeper or, as Rian puts it, "radar system".

It depends on the KIND of Radar.

If this radar is the smoke coming for 230 leagues (or 380 km) without dissipating, or a person who sees the burning village at that distance- that I don't buy, sorry. It is against common sense. I was forced to agree to it, but I KNOW that it is improbable. So don't expect me to be happy about it.

If the radar is a PALANTIR in Val's hands - then I do buy it. But Val said long ago that he hasn't brought any with him.

If it is a bird with tidings, then it is probable.

If it is another revelation made by Val's talkative sword - no.

If it is a messenger - It is highly likely, but he will hardly arrive in time.

It might be a boat coming on the wind before the pirate party - quite fine. There must be plenty of small boats on the river.

It might be a patrol who sends the warning.

So, the warning should better come by PLAUSIBLE means.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Then Val can write "but they didn't know that 10,000 soldiers just happened to be camping right before Tharbad and they killed all the pirates."
Then you guys can write "but they didn't know that the pirates had some mysterious instant plague that killed all the soldiers but the pirates were immune to."
Then Val can write "but the soldiers were able to fight as ghosts (LOTR canon!) and killed all the pirates."
Then you guys can write "but the Chancellor said spells that immobilized the ghosts"
Then I can write "but Rian ran up to the Chancellor right before he said the spell and started kissing him, and he was lost in his love for her, and never said the spell."
on and on ad nauseum....

We could do this. It's feasible. It's a role-playing game! One writer writes something, another writer writes something, another writer writes something... as long as we all stay reasonably canon and remain mutually respectful & happy, and abstain from killing or badly hurting each other's characters or whatnot... oh, screw it. Rian, they have a point - let Val do the responding & working with; why do you gotta fight all his "battles"? He's around today - can't you let him speak for himself? Yes, there are some terrific compromises in the works here; I see them already and I see people already accepting them. I really DO see a "queen-mum" thing going on here!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

A question of my own, if we go through with the attack: where will all the festivities and bonfire take place? All over the city, on the rochdol field?

Not throughout the city, of course! Fire department will never allow it.

Rochdol feld is an option, another possiblity is right over the bridge on the South Bank
What do we choose?

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

Lotesse Could you have Viv find her boy-toy wounded in the wreckage? I think that would clench the trouble and help us later on down the road.

As you wish, my lady! And listen, Ray's not Viniglaen's "boy-toy", she's seriously falling in love with the guy, to the point where there's a major inner conflict twisting inside her right now.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

(ps - if you miss the old one, maybe make a fun "Nazguls Gone Wild" type of rpg where the "good" characters are all public and can get knocked off right and left in a kind of South Park style , then you guys can stay here for the more serious one but blow off steam in that one! )

What? Are you serious? No thank you. I get the feeling that some people may not understand that "us FOEADs" don't just want to act like idiots and run around killing off cartoon-like good guys. Was that a joke just now, or do you seriously think that this is what us Nazgul writers want? Come ON, Rian. I sense some sarcasm there on your part -" nazguls gone wild. "

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Or if you want, go ahead and start the fleet to Tharbad without discussion.
Then Val can write "but they didn't know that 10,000 soldiers just happened to be camping right before Tharbad and they killed all the pirates."
Then you guys can write "but they didn't know that the pirates had some mysterious instant plague that killed all the soldiers but the pirates were immune to."
Then Val can write "but the soldiers were able to fight as ghosts (LOTR canon!) and killed all the pirates."
Then you guys can write "but the Chancellor said spells that immobilized the ghosts"
Then I can write "but Rian ran up to the Chancellor right before he said the spell and started kissing him, and he was lost in his love for her, and never said the spell."

Actually, no, you can't. Writing "he was lost in his love for her" is posting for MY character.

That is nice that you have put that little example here, Rian. That is how wargames are played. The idea is to get an upper hand, by all the means allowed. When this approach is applied to a writing project, where the aim is to get a COHERENT and INTERESTING story, then it is ruinous. Now the story is written by all. Don't think I want that fight so badly for the benifit of my characters. No. I want it for the sake of an interesting story. And others want this as well. We are making concessions. Your side does also. And Val will not "look like an idiot" if something in his line of intelligence, or his radar system goes wrong. It happens. Was Turgon an idiot? Was Turin one?

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

(ps - if you miss the old one, maybe make a fun "Nazguls Gone Wild" type of rpg where the "good" characters are all public and can get knocked off right and left in a kind of South Park style , then you guys can stay here for the more serious one but blow off steam in that one! )

We want a serious one here, thanks. You believe we want a buffonade? But "a serious one" is not just class-going and falling in love and reminiscing and angsting, though there is room for all of it. It should include some action, IMHO, otherwise the game is dead.

[The last sane person]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

As you wish, my lady! And listen, Ray's not Viniglaen's "boy-toy", she's seriously falling in love with the guy, to the point where there's a major inner conflict twisting inside her right now.

Oh whoopy... Fat lot of good thats gonna do him. Pirates are still gonna finish him.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

So, beware two 7'4" giants swinging heavy bits of sharp metal. 600 pirates...that's no teaparty. Secondly, do the pirates know why they are there? If the answer is yes, do they really care that they are only trying to scare Val into building a fleet? Probably not..

First of all the Umbarians- Black numenoreans ar bound to be as tall as you, around 7'. That doesn't apply to Haradians, though.

Secondly all the pirates know is that the Lord of Umbar, Fuinur, proposed to them a raid on Tharbad, promising rich plunder in the paceful Arnor. That is all they know and care about. They have no inkling about the ML or the nazgul.

Originally Posted by The last sane person

They have shown their serious intent by already sacking a town, taking slaves and razing a village. (Shah's first priority once he finds out is to free the captives) I hope we at Tharbad have a good fire department.

Sure they have serious intent to plunder all they can. The captives, as I said are on their way to Umbar.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

But "a serious one" is not just class-going and falling in love and reminiscing and angsting, though there is room for all of it. It should include some action, IMHO, otherwise the game is dead.

Word!!

Shah - That was a great bio over there in the Info thread, about Captain Shah. That man has really been through it. That's cool how he was sent to Elrond's like that to recuperate and the connexion made there between he and Mahtaliel; now it's quite clear how come they're such "soul-friend" kind of people to each other.