Peter Jackson has improved Tolkien

[Cirdan]

The recasting of Boromir is silly and unbeleivable. He is a warrior and an officer. If you had ever met anyone of this walk of life, especially one who has experienced a non-stop state of war, you would not find a sensitive, emotional, new-age guy. The stern and brutish character of the book-Boromir is a better represention of what one finds in real life, if reality is what you look for in a fantasy.

As long as we are skipping around I have another complaint with the film. When Gandalf jumps out to startle Frodo in the dark in Bag End, he looks terrified. Yet he is willing to send Frodo off by himself with the ring. If the circumstances were so dire then Gandalf would have stayed with the ring.

The stealth aspect of the quest is tossed aside as well. they camp at Caradhras in the open in broad daylight.

An speaking of light, the lighting in the film was horrendous. The Black Rider in the Shire night scene just before the ferry is backlit by what can only be a 10,000 watt spot. It looks like he is standing on the edge of Central Park. The same problems occur in Moria. They walk through tunnels that are seemingly artificially light. As they pass down the corridors the bright white light behind them never fades. And where did Aragorn get that gigantic torch? It's over a meter in length and looks like the Statue of Liberty at the top.

And what is they point of that silly scene before the bridge at Kahzad-dum? Are we supposed to beleive that if you lean forward you can influence the movement of tons of rock? Why is this scene added if there is such a need to constrict time?

The same goes for the skirmish in the tomb of Balin. Are we supposed to beleive that mail supports the weight of a thrust from a troll? Frodo would have been crushed by the stroke. It was an orc spear that was defelcted in the book. This is a perfectly beleivable circumstance under which the coat would work. And again, Frodo is made wimpy by cringing in the corner.

"One for Shire!"

He single-handedly drove off the troll by delivering a wound with Sting. The idea of magic blades is reduced in the movie to an early warning system.

So much for skipping around, picking points, ignoring the whole and being unstructured. Ugh!

[BeardofPants]

Tom did a lot more than provide a safe haven, he also provided them with the blades necessary to take out the nazgul.

[durin's bane]

Yeah. One thing about how in the movie the way Frodo and the other hobbits recieved their swords: how did Aragorn know how many swords to get? I'm sure he doesn't carry several swords under his cloak 24-7. The way the hobbits recieved their swords in the book was much more logical. It also made the swords seem more important. Just a quick, "These are for you," *toss* makes it seem like the swords aren't special, and a blade is just an everyday gift.

[Cirdan]

And you notice he doesn't give them to the hobbits until Weathertop. Notice also he has a torch on Weathertop after they put out the fire. I love the typical Frankenstein-esque kerosene torches.

Do the Nazgul carry spare clothes to change into after bursting into flames. I know they are evil but that doesn't preclude good hygene.

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Okay, if some of you want to continue your fruitless efforts to score debate points against me, ...[/B]

Fruitless? I think you're confused, BB.

If my efforts were fruitless, or LuthienTinuviel's, or Bropous', or anyone else who has disagreed with you, no one would agree with us. Yet, if you read the thread, very few if any people are agreeing with you.

If my efforts were fruitless, no one would be defending my opinion. How many people have been defending you?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Notice also he has a torch on Weathertop after they put out the fire.

Hmm yes. Poor lil' Frodo has a tantrum at the hobbits for cooking supper on an open fire and Aragorn is waltzing around Weathertop with a lit torch ............. maybe if Jackson had reduced the action scenes and added a little more realism he may have been more successful

A short minor point as to another of Jacksons gaffs is his misinterpretation of Frodo's character. Merry and Pippin became the thief-jester combination where as in the chapter "A Shortcut to Mushrooms" Tolkien reveals that in fact Frodo was quiet the scoundrel in his youth....yet Jackson has diminished him into a self-doubting depressive ............... goodness know what mental state Jackson's Frodo will be in when he arrives at Mt Doom...........probably catatonic

[Cirdan]

How about when Aragorn chews the kingsfoil instead of boiling it? That just can't be sanitary.

And why does Arwen "shiv" Aragorn. There's more people jumping out of dark places than in Abbott and Costello Meet the Mummy.

Frodo will not be going to the Grey Havens. He'll be off to the nearest mental hospital. The bright side is they have lots of places to cringe. Most likely the last two will be the Aragorn and Arwen show.

Pippen must also assume the blunders of Boromir by throwing the rock into the lake of the watcher. No one in their right mind would take such a buffoon on this quest.

SP, he's either completely deluded or so lacking in self-esteem that he would put up with this humiliation just to annoy others.

[Gerbil]

Hurry up and reply to all the points BB.
It's getting boring waiting to point out your obvious mistakes, but I am not going to do them individually because it's just a waste of time.

BTW BB, in case you haven't noticed, it's not you vs 'us' - some of us against you have different opinions on things, so make sure you reply to the right person when you quote and 'debate'.

And one final point, PLEASE stop putting in stupid and unsubstantiated 'points' designed to 'prove' you have the weight of popular (intelligent) opinion behind you. Such as:

I'm justing saying most good editors would have talked him out of it.

As most Tolkien scholars know, JRR included Bombadil in the story early on when he still viewed LOTR as a sequel to his children’s tale, The Hobbit.

Most professional writers, English professors, and film critics would agree with my points.

If Tolkien had been a first-time author, any good publisher and/or editor would have told him the guy added zippo to the plot and needed to go.

[Cirdan]

Is it too late to change the title of this thread to "Peter Jackson hosed up Tolkien"?

[Black Breathalizer]

A recent rash of posts today gleefully trash parts of the FOTR movie. I find this rather curious since supposedly most of these posters have told me to get off their case about hating the movie because they liked the movie. Pardon me, but you Tolkien Loyalists sure have an odd way of showing it.

And don't feel you have some advantage over me because of your numbers. The student to teacher ratio in most classrooms settings is usually quite high. So the size of the class doesn't bother Master Teachers like moi.

I'll admit you are a rather immature and unruly bunch at times, but I remain confident that under my wise, caring, and patient guidance, you will all eventually open your blocked minds and come around to the correct Jacksonian Revisionist way of thinking about Tolkien. As Arwen tells us, "there is still hope."

[Coney]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
[B]If you don't want to actually discuss a topic on a discussion board, fine by me. But then don't waste our time with postings that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic.

That was good advice you gave BB, try using it on yourself

[markedel]

I assume Jackson has some sort of interpertation of LOTR-the movie doesn't explore most of the book's themes, it is a movie after all, and a movie made for visual sweep and commercial gain-not analysis.

Hey I liked starship troopers-but it's not an improvement on Heinlein.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Blackheart
Ugh.

You've convinced me, BB.

I now officially hate the movie.

I used to feel it had some redeeming value, but upon examination of the various meandering arguments, I can't say I liked it enough to go see the rest of them.

The same goes for the rest of this thread.

I'm moving this way, too. I've seen the movie at least 16 times now and I can say that each viewing shows more flaws and block-headed edits. What a waste of a great cast, beautiful sets and locations, and most of all the opportunity to do justice to Tolkien.

Oh, and BB... you as a teacher? I picture you as still in Underoos. If you are older that 14 then you should really think about therapy for those delusions of grandeur.

[LuthienTinuviel]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
[B]A recent rash of posts today gleefully trash parts of the FOTR movie.

parts, yes... PARTS, YOU NUMBSKULL!!

I find this rather curious since supposedly most of these posters have told me to get off their case about hating the movie because they liked the movie.

ok, lets talk about this calmly now, we didn't like parts, hmm parts. well now a part wouldn't be the whole thing, would it?
i would stop here, except ive seen you in "action" before, and i think it's best to lay things out neatly now.

the majority of us here, your "compitition" liked the movie as a whole. but if you knew anything about entmoot, or the people here, you must know that none of us here are ever perfectly hpappy about anything, except for one thing, the way tolkien wrote LotR, and well, even that has it's little disturbances now and then, like leggy's hair colour, or do balrogs have wings. so, logically, none of us are going to be happy with the way peter jackson (read: not tolkien) did LotR. This is only natural. this is where we get the points that we are presenting to you in such a loverly manner. this is where you think you get the ground to tell us that we hate peter j. and co. and that none of us "purists, elitists, tolkienites, or loyalists" liked the movie in any way shape or form, then when we try to defend ourselves you employ selective hearing, or in this case, skimming the material which you should be studying to better validify your own arguments. only after we tell you umteen times does it finally get thru your thick head. oh and i can't forget you changing your standpoint and "modifying" it so much that you barely have a grain of sand to stand on anymore.

by the way, peter jackson had hardly anything to do with sean bean's boromir. it was sean bean who played boromir, not PJ, at least the last time i checked it was. so since i see youve gotten so persnickety about keeping this on topic, that little arguement has no place here, because it doesn't have enough to do with p.j.

this little word game of yours is grating on my nerves, sureley you will change something before i hunt you down like the dirty rodent you are (sorry, gerbil, i meant no offense, your a clean rodent! )

But hey, you've gotta admit you made a cute female orc a few pages back.

dear god, i hope you never breed.

[Gerbil]

Congrats BB - after this last post of yours you've convinced me to put you on my ignore list. Not because you've offended me, or insulted me or anything else. Simply because you've proved finally and irrefutably that you are an immature troll.

Now normally this wouldn't bother me in the slightest. In fact I find your attempts at trolling quite amusing, because they are simply so awful. Trolling is a fine art that you have merely touched the surface on.

Nope, the reason you are first person I've ever put on my ignore list after 7 years online (and believe me, I've seen people like you in the whole time - well, like you, only better) is because this is one of the few places that I come to for friendly discussion and interesting, well-thought out comments. You supply none of this.

Anywhere else I've gone online I've expected and duly ignored trolls. Here I don't expect it, and despite me giving you the benefit of the doubt numerous times, you've proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that you are a twat.

In the meantime I suggest you either grow up, or at least learn to troll decently, since while you act neither grown up or troll as embaressingly badly as you currently do, you are simply wasting everyone's time - most importantly, your own.

Am going to have fun reading this thread from now on - cos I'll have to imagine what you write. This will be fun since my imagination will be hard pressed to fill in your blanks with something less witty or clever or interesting than what you actually wrote.

[Gerbil]

Hey cool! Wherever one of BB's posts used to be, I now see:

This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

Excellent - this thread already makes more sense!

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Gerbil
Hey cool! Wherever one of BB's posts used to be, I now see:



Excellent - this thread already makes more sense!

Oh! Oh! I'm going to do it too! The responses ARE the only good part anyway.

[BeardofPants]

LT, have I mentioned how much I love you lately? Comments like this:

parts, yes... PARTS, YOU NUMBSKULL!!

Just make my day.

Yep, think I might be tempted to add him to my ignore list as well. But I dunno, it's kinda funny to read of his delusions of grandeur...

Did PJ improve upon Tolkien? No.
Did he improve upon parts of Tolkien? Overall, no.
Did he mangle Tolkien? Yes.
Is BB a twat? Absolutely.

[olsonm]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Did he mangle Tolkien? Yes.

That's a bit much. I'd say that he altered/changed Tolkien. Which of course is the definition of 'adapt'.

[Earniel]

Wow, people, this thread is becoming dangerous. If I hold my hand to the monitor I think it'll try to bite. Now theworkhorse went through all the trouble to post his view in great detail to help this dying thread and I still hope to see an answer on them.