The Official Language Thread II

[Grey_Wolf]

At the moment Im recommenced the transcription of a book that translated in the fall of '08.

This sentence Im not quite sure of tho:

Soon they reached a huge mountain.

Soon they came upon a huge mountain.

Which one would be the more correct one?

Glad to know.

[Varnafindë]

I'm not a native speaker - but wouldn't the second sentence imply more of an unexpected mountain?

[Grey_Wolf]

Thanks, Varna! Indeed it would. Ill go with reached.

[Grey_Wolf]

what is the difference btwn immediately understood and realized immediately?

Glad to know.

[Jonathan]

The vocabulary of the English language is so extensive that it gives the speaker plenty of options to get just the right nuance for the message he wants to convey.

GW, the difference is nuance. The actual nuance and meaning are then determined by the context.

(Sorry, I'm not of much help, am I? )

[Grey_Wolf]

Thanks, you have been of great help, buddy!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I'm taking a placement test for a French class. The first part, of course, was a lot of "match the verb / article / adjective with the noun!" sort of thing.

The second part is: Vous êtes intéressé(e) Ã* travailler pour un organisme bilingue. Écrivez une lettre au Service des ressources humaines pour justifier ce choix*:

I understand the question, but DEFINITELY no idea how to begin "justifying this choice." Pretty sure this part will remain blank. Hopefully, I'll still place in Beginner 2.

[Mari]

Justifying the choice... isn't that simply to argue why you choose this line of work and why you would be suitable for it? My French sucks, but in German, English or Japanese it seems easy enough.
Good luck! Knock 'em dead

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It is; but while I can read a little French, I realized looking at the sentence that I CANNOT write any.

[Mari]

Ah, like that. I see. But I'm sure more will come back to you while you're writing... (I hope )

[Earniel]

I kind of find it strange that people wanting to enter a 'beginner' class already have to take an entry test on the language. Unless there's a 'beginner 1' class for those who are only really starting to learn the language, as opposed to those that have a small basis in it?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yep; Basic I, Basic II, Basic III. Fingers crossed for Basic II!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

what is the difference btwn immediately understood and realized immediately?

Glad to know.

This is interesting trying to explain! I'll give it a shot ...

In American English, I think you'd use generally use "realized" more for a situation, and "understood" more for a concept. And I think that you would say "suddenly" instead of "immediately" for understood.

However, in British English, I think they use "understood" like Americans use "realized". Comments, Brits?

Here's a couple of ways that I would use those words in American English:

When the fog cleared and he saw the train coming down the tracks, he realized immediately that he was in imminent danger.

When he happened to look at a clock, he immediately realized that if he didn't get to the restaurant soon, he would miss seeing his friends.

When he accidentally brushed up against her and she blushed, he suddenly understood that she liked him.

When the substitute math teacher explained the concept in a different way, he immediately understood how it worked.


Anyway, those are my thoughts on those two phrases - anyone else?

[Tessar]

Those are great examples, Rian, but I'm afraid that they're a little unclear, and extremely unrealistic. Let me give you a better scenario:

"Whenever Tessar leaves his house, he immediately understands that people will want to make out with him."

contrast with:

"As soon as the good looking student saw Tessar, they realized immediately that they wanted to make out with him."

You're welcome.

[Mari]

'realized' is spelled with an s in British English.
But this is what my British dictionary says for both:
Realise: become fully aware of as a fact, understand clearly
Understand: perceive the intended meaning/significance/explanation of; infer from information received.
It sounds like 'realise' is more accidental, whereas 'understand' requires some sort of action.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I was thinking that you realize a fact, and understand an idea or as concept (as Ri said); those definitions fit very well with that.

[Jonathan]

Huh? I don't realise what you mean.

[Earniel]

Funny how people interpret words differently. I always thought that 'understood' signified that you had grasped a certain concept or fact and could explain it yourself, but that 'realise' was more in the line of putting two things together that may not have been obvious at first. So that, in my eyes, understanding needs an explanation while realisation requires a mental process.

Sort of like:

"When Eärniel had finished her hour-long speech on frogs, her audience understood how important these fascinating amphibians are for ecosystems."

"When people noticed that Eärniel was spending a lot of time looking adoringly at pictures or pretty frogs and was in fact saying 'ribbit' occasionally, they realised she had a thing for frogs."

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Yep; Basic I, Basic II, Basic III. Fingers crossed for Basic II!

So didn't Basic I have any writing exercise? Just conversation or reading?

[Rían]

It is a bit vague - they're interchangeable in many ways; it's just one of those things that we use because we've heard others use it, not because it's an obvious choice.

"Understand" is also used when you're checking something, as in, "Do I understand you correctly, that you're being mobbed by music fans whenever you leave your house?"

Tessar - it's tough being so popular, isn't it?

edit - Eärniel posted - Yes, I'd definitely use it that way.

And I think in my examples, you could substitute the other option and it would still work. Those were just what I would have naturally written.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Huh? I don't realise what you mean.

Poor usage, sir!

Originally Posted by Eärniel

So didn't Basic I have any writing exercise? Just conversation or reading?

I haven't taken Basic I, or any French course. I'm just hoping that what the bits and pieces that I've picked up from francophonic friends, cognates, rough familiarity with the structure of other languages, etc., will add up to not having to take Basic I.

Still haven't heard back from them. What the heck!

I think that realize also connotes, or tends to connote, a certain degree of dynamism, whereas understand tends to be more static. Of course, there are exceptions; realize is more static in the present tense, and more likely to connote a "keeping" of a grasp, but realized or will realize suggest a moment of coming to realization, whereas understood or will understand suggest more a holding or keeping of a mental grasp of something. In the past or future, understand can indicate the "achieving" of a grasp but usually with a modifier like "she suddenly understood" or "he will come to understand."