03-24-2003, 04:19 PM | #341 |
High King of Númenórë
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Also, those PoW's that we do have, have not been seen on photo's or TV. It's a fine line, but that is what makes one country in violation and the other not...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
03-24-2003, 04:35 PM | #342 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
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I think the original idea was that southern Iraq would capitulate, with the people of Basra in particular coming over to the Coalition side. Clearly, that hasn't happened; they haven't even secured Umm Qasr.
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What I can't believe is that the whole Coalition strategy was based on the assumption that Saddam's regime would somehow implode after a few days. If it was, then it ranks alongside WW1 for utter stupidity of top brass. At the moment, I can't see it being resolved without them having to get down to street fighting through Baghdad. If that happens, these first few days will seem like a picnic. d. |
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03-24-2003, 04:46 PM | #343 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - Hussein sent Republican Guards down to those cities to make it dfficult to secure the area - after we had gone in there. Quote:
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I also think, as I told my father yesterday - it's only the 4th day and I was always thinking it would take at least a month - two weeks if EVERYTHING went perfectly. On Thursday and Friday - everything looked like it was going perfectly. Sunday - everything fell apart. It's not the end though - it's only the beginning. You learn by your mistakes and hopefully the military will learn by some of these mistakes.
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03-24-2003, 05:01 PM | #344 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
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I'd like to think it'll be all over in a month, but I'm not so hopeful. When they do finally clear out the Republican Guard from Basra, they'll have 2 million starving people to feed, making it difficult to concentrate on hunting down guerillas. That, too, is part of Saddam's tactic of using our own morality against us. |
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03-24-2003, 07:50 PM | #345 |
High King of Númenórë
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Well with Basrah and Umm Qasr, we do control the cities it is just little pockets on the outskirts from what I am reading/seeing where the resistance is. Looks as though, from the latest news though that they are both close to be completely secured, which is big, especially in Basrah, because then we can bring in the aid...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
03-24-2003, 08:23 PM | #346 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
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I would point out two things: First, there is a state of war between the coalition powers and Iraq. This means that military prisoners taken from the other side should automatically be considered PoWs, and will remain so for as long as they are kept in custody. Second, the act of surrender is always willing. If you are not willing, you can’t surrender, you will be fighting. You may be captured if you are incapacitated to fight, but then you haven’t surrendered at all. Nevertheless you become a PoW as a consequence. As an example, I would recall that, during WW2, for instance, when several Allied units surrendered willingly to the Japanese they were considered PoWs and the mistreatment they received was seen under that light, other examples could be given. I would like to further point out that, by your reasoning, if an American soldier is ambushed by Iraqis and forced to surrender without a fight, he shouldn’t be considered a PoW, and would not be under the protection of the Convention, something that strikes me as unacceptable, unless you have a better solution for this. As for the public interrogation of captives, yes you didn’t do it, nor did anyone claim that you did.
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03-24-2003, 09:49 PM | #347 |
Elf Lord
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I’ve just found in the Net the article pertaining to the status of prisoner of war
According with the 4th Article of the Third Geneva Convention we know that: A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy: 1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces. 2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) That of carrying arms openly; (d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. 3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power. Etc. You can see the Convention here You may notice that there isn’t any reference to the way the prisoner have fallen into the hands of the their enemy.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
03-24-2003, 09:59 PM | #348 |
Bank'ress of Sith
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Okay....
Forget JUST the A bomb Let's do all the alphabetical bombs.... And on impact... Everyone can sing... a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y and z now I bombed my local Hussein next time won't you...give the f*ck up? Yeah--that's a great idea...
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my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think. |
03-24-2003, 10:07 PM | #349 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Does that still mean they are POW? Or actually being protected from the atrocities of Hussein??? One person said he drove all the way from Baghdad to southern Iraq just to give him self up.
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03-24-2003, 10:08 PM | #350 |
The Buddy Rabbit
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lol.....the Americans can't complain about prisoners.....
What about the Afghanistan prisoners held in South America? Held as Al Quiada prisoners(who the US say they are at war with), yet under interanational law they are held illegally if they were POW's......the US won't proclaim them as POW yet after 18 months they still refuse to try them as civilian prisoners Humanitarian????.....don't make me laugh Last edited by Coney : 03-24-2003 at 10:21 PM. |
03-24-2003, 10:12 PM | #351 | |
Elf Lord
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I just received an e-mail forward from my father that ENRAGED ME! This is the second time it's happened. While I agree in part with a very small bit of what the e-mail said (I believe immigrants should accomadate themselves to American culture a bit, at least to the point where they know some English if they plan on being in the public eye, since it is the most common language) the following is what has me fuming: Quote:
If I hadn't gotten this from my father, I wouldn't think twice about sending this person a scalding e-mail. As it is, I may still tell him what I think of it. [What's worse is he is ALWAYS complaining about how things are being run in the government, especiall the local government. ARG!]
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03-24-2003, 10:21 PM | #352 | |
Bank'ress of Sith
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Like Michael Moore. *Note ironic disgusted scalding sarcasm (yes, all that at once)*
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my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think. Last edited by Aeryn : 03-24-2003 at 10:22 PM. |
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03-24-2003, 10:22 PM | #353 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Contrary to your thoughts - the prisoners in Cuba are not held illegally. Also - 19 were released this weekend. One additional thing - in 1991 - even though our prisoners were displayed on Iraqi TV - they raped the female soldier, they broke the soldiers arms, they had them do interviews with guns to their heads for Iraqi TV.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-24-2003 at 10:26 PM. |
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03-24-2003, 10:28 PM | #354 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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03-24-2003, 10:30 PM | #355 | |
Elf Lord
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
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03-24-2003, 10:30 PM | #356 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Adding this because you replied while I was posting.... Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-24-2003 at 10:34 PM. |
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03-24-2003, 10:34 PM | #357 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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They may be given prayer time and a diet that meets their religious beliefs.....but why are they caged, shackled and transported on carts like animals? Amnesty international has been petitioning these men (and they are human) for the last nine months (the time a normal civilian has to have served as a maximum before he must face trial or be released). The prisoners in Cuba are being held illegally.....except for the law that is beheld by the US ...... if the US sees itself above the international law.....fine, but it shouldn't call on the international law to protect it's own people. |
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03-24-2003, 10:39 PM | #358 | |
Quasi Evil
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and that last sentence reminds me of the joke about the bigot who gets upset at a hispanic for speaking spanish around him and demands he "learn to speak american damit! Its this lands native language! learn it or get out!" and the guy next to him says "hmm doesnt sounds like you dont know much cherokee either." which leads me back to my first question again: what is an american?
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03-24-2003, 10:41 PM | #359 |
Bank'ress of Sith
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IR--You confuse me to no end
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my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think. |
03-24-2003, 10:42 PM | #360 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Has amnesty international ever petitioned for our soldiers??? Even though we treat captives humanely - even without the GC - yet the same is never given to our soldiers. Look at Korea, Vietnam and the Gulf Wat - in none of those cases were our soldiers threated humanely.
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