03-29-2006, 07:12 PM | #341 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
so, why Lief- in your opinion- does God think Britain is exclusively the spawn of hell and mother of all evil?
forgive me as a purist here- but i think (in my humble and honestly exploring way) that God has pure thought and pure existence- and i for one have no such arrogance to attempt to speak on his behalf - nor to attack Great Britian or England as you do- and to by the same breath raise up the states of the United states of america as pure beyond pure and as utterly beyond the reproach of both man, state or God. Forgive me if i find this hard to swallow or if i find it my personal and spiritual duty to question this ... ..oh - and as you say - this is not a personal attack! |
03-29-2006, 07:33 PM | #342 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
I think that Britain has more to be ashamed of in its history than the US does. I brought up some of the bad points from Britain's history against which the US has nothing to compare to back my claim. That probably made it look as though I was really down on Britain, but I tried to dispell any such misunderstanding by saying in the final paragraph of my post that I personally think Britain is great. I love Britain. They're a neat country with great strength and resolve, and national character and spunk . They're also loyal allies to us, as we are to them. We've had great relations and economic ties. I love Britain. My post's purpose was not to trash Britain or say the US is perfect. The point of my post was to argue against your claim that we have more to be ashamed of in our history than they do. I love both the Britain and the US, as I said in that same post you're referring to. Britain showed immense courage and guts in World War 2, after Chamberlain was out. Britain was just so cool in those days with Winston Churchill. I think it did very well with an impossible job during the Mandate Days in Israel. I've been under the impression that Britain often ruled its territories well in its imperialism. Britain ruled the North American colonies very well too, in comparison with how other nations ruled their colonies. Britain was brilliant on the sea. Queen Elizabeth the First was brilliant, and I really like Queen Victoria and Albert too, and the British culture and history. King Alfred was just unbelievably cool. There were great leaders and terrible leaders in England's history. England is a land of courage and a stiff upper lip, along with great loyalty and perseverance. Their caricature is the stalwart, tough officer with the "jolly good show!" comment . They're great. I just disagreed with your outlook on the US. I think we're awesome too and that that's evident in our history as well . Though just like Britain, we do have our dark periods also. Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|||
03-29-2006, 07:37 PM | #343 |
Spaceman Spiff
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In the belly of a Firefly, living in Serenity is where you'll find me
Posts: 1,438
|
Deja Vu. I don't know if it's because I've been up for almost 24 hrs, I'm trying to get my sleep schedule back in order, or what, but that entire conversation between Lief and Gwaimir Windgem seems like it's happened before. I have some things to say on some of your post Lief, but alas I am way to tired and out of it to think straight right now.
I really need to get on the ball though, I have been procratinating on responding to a post you made on page 1 and already we are on page 4. You guys move fast. I will get to it, just give me some time. Edit- I'm moving so slow right now 2 post came before I even finished this one. And I noticed I'm using a lot of smilies.
__________________
Do you hear that? Last edited by Farimir Captain of Gondor : 03-29-2006 at 07:39 PM. |
03-29-2006, 07:44 PM | #344 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|||
03-29-2006, 07:59 PM | #345 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
Quote:
this is an untruth. purely and simply an Untuth. I never said that nor ever thought it- you miss the point entirely. The whole point was - it is pointless picking out any particular state on the charges you brought intitally- the whole point is you could apply them equally to all states. yes - i refered to england in a lesser way - but in context of current affairs only. yet- your reply, despite lip service- seemed to be either a) missing the point entirely or B) a personal attack- somewhat subsequently supported by the added disclaimer??? - i mean what is that discaliamer about?? |
|
03-29-2006, 08:18 PM | #346 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Here's what you said:
Quote:
I didn't know you were talking only about current affairs. I assumed you were referring to history because your post was a response to mine, and the post you were responding to was talking about history. Plus you mentioned the starvation in the Ukraine, which also was a reference to history. So I really did think you were talking about history, and that's why I responded what I did. Not meaning to imply that you were being purposely misleading. I just made a mistake. I'm sorry about that.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-29-2006 at 08:20 PM. |
|
03-29-2006, 08:33 PM | #347 | ||||||||
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: all over the place
Posts: 1,601
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
||||||||
03-29-2006, 08:52 PM | #348 | |
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: all over the place
Posts: 1,601
|
Quote:
Gwai, I love that Onion article.
__________________
Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
|
03-29-2006, 09:20 PM | #349 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
Quote:
firstly - i never ever , ever - mentioned anything about -- hang on- while i try and work this obscure rubbish out ... (btw that is just a fact- not an opinion) ... what is it? "the starvation in the Ukraine" ????????????????????? >>>>>>>>>>>>> ???????????????? what on God's green Earth are on you on about Lief???? AND HERE'S A VERY IMPORTANT AND HONEST POINT LIEF dO NOT- REPEAT - hangon - caps lock .... do not -repeat NOT - imply you are quoting me when you are in fact quite blatantly not quoting me but distintcly and - it appears- willfully mis-representing me!! please do me the simple courtesy and have the basic honesty (as i have to you ) to be clear and not attempt to mis-represent by inference what i actually said? Furthermore- i am personally disturbed and confused why you appear to contnue this personal attack - however subtle you hope to weave it - against me??? I know of no reason why you should attempt to do so? I find it sad frankly, Lief. Particularly from you, someone i have a lot of respect for, and ironically because, you stand - (normally) honestly behind your beleifs. I cannot state how much this saddens me. I mean with a lot of mooters - you'd just ignore it- not think twice aboutit - but with you i find these personal attacks frankly disturbing and really quite saddening. where is this all coming from, Lief - and why?? If you wish to quote me then quote me. A simple honest thing to do. Do NOT imply a quote with twsited meanings from what i actaully wrote or said - i do not need you to tell me what i wrote- especially since what you write bears no discernable meaning or relation to what i wrote that you pourpote to "quote". I shall be passing this post on to a number of mooters, mods and admins in serious complaint. |
|
03-29-2006, 09:23 PM | #350 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
So - you already edited the untruths heh?
what's the idea here? put the lies out for a while and then edit them before i get a chance to reply? |
03-29-2006, 09:31 PM | #351 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I don't get all this, BB - Lief may have misunderstood you, but I'm sure it's nothing intentional, and I certainly don't see any personal attacks coming from him.
I think your idea to pass it on to a mod is a good one, because it will get this off the thread.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-29-2006, 09:44 PM | #352 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
I have- i have reported the post - whatever that means?
It and these attacks make me so angry. i have also pm'd you (and out of fairness and honesty to lief also - and others and mods etc) the exact word for word text of the reported post ... i too do not understand it Ri??? |
03-29-2006, 09:48 PM | #353 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
mmmm .. unless he made a mistake (not sure how???) quoting me and then realised and edited it?????
but how can you do that?? anyway- i am off to bed. |
03-29-2006, 09:55 PM | #354 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
just to let you know, BB, your PM isn't showing up
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-29-2006, 10:03 PM | #355 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
i re did it - you should have it now.
|
03-29-2006, 11:41 PM | #356 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
I'm responding to you over PM, Butterbeer. I think the Theology thread really isn't the place for this conversation, and I'm sure you and Spock would agree.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-30-2006, 03:18 AM | #357 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Fiddlesticks. Butterbeer, I've written you a PM about this, but I can't get through because your PM box is full again.
I'll respond to you tomorrow, Bombadillo. I mean it this time .
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-30-2006, 01:28 PM | #358 | ||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
I'm sorry if this post is still focused on some of the same questions I was asking earlier, Bomb, but I guess I just haven't yet got answers yet that are detailed enough to satisfy my curiosity 100% of the way.
Quote:
So what is the point of following these laws of the universe? I know you said we shouldn't need reasons for the way we live our lives, but for my sake let's look for a reason. If everything is meaningless and worthless, even happiness and life are worthless. Quote:
Quote:
Besides, slavery isn't sadism . You can't say it's wrong. Neener neener neener . Quote:
Quote:
And why shouldn't one just kill oneself? If it's all meaningless anyway . . . Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-30-2006 at 01:35 PM. |
||||||
03-30-2006, 01:37 PM | #359 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Thanks for the invitation back to the Philosophy Thread, Bombadillo. I don't feel I shall post there anymore, though. I might change my mind in the future, but for now I'm decided. My views on philosophy and religion blend together pretty much seamlessly at this moment, so I can't trust myself to avoid religion to everyone's satisfaction. I don't want to offend anyone or push the rules at all, so I think I'll just stay here, where I know I'm safe stating all my views rather than just some of them.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-30-2006 at 07:33 PM. |
03-30-2006, 03:44 PM | #360 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Art! Ah! Lovely! :D
Quote:
But when people look at many professional paintings, you don't have the difference of opinion where some people say it's art and some people say it's just a mess and there's no art visible there. You have the majority of people saying it is art, even if it's not to their taste. There are some exceptions. There is of course risque art where there's a lot of debate over whether it's really art or not, and then there is art that just looks to me like a bunch of splatters on a canvas , but which lots of others think is art. So there are differences of opinion about REAL art, art that doesn't spring from a random mess, but there is far broader consensus that it is real art people are looking at, that there is very real beauty there. Now when we come to nature, there's virtually UNIVERSAL appreciation for this art among humans. With random messes that turn out to be art, there's an enormous amount of dispute over whether it's art or not. With purposefully designed art (in the form of paintings, architecture or other) there's FAR greater consensus that it is art. And with the universe, there is essentially universal acknowledgement of the fact that it is beautiful. And ALMOST ALL of it is also acclaimed to be beautiful . The planets, the solar system, the waterfalls, the trees, the glades, the flowers, the sky, the clouds, the earth, the ocean, (most of) the wild animals. There are of course some facts of nature that aren't so universally accepted as beautiful. But such an enormous prepronderance of nature is beautiful, and those parts of nature are so complex, it would have taken just very slight variations in those structures for them to turn out in ways that aren't beautiful. Of course, some animals and plants use beauty as tools to achieve their ends, but visible light itself is beautiful, as are the planets, nebulae and solar systems! And the galaxies ! It's just utterly mindboggling how much beauty there is, and how easy it would have been for it to all be nonbeautiful. And it's universally accepted among humans as art. Messes are rarely accepted as art. Sometimes they are accepted as art by people, but not often. Purposeful human-made professional art is a lot of the time accepted as art by people, but there is debate over many pieces. Nature is universally acclaimed as beautiful. So we see a chain here, a ladder. On the lowest level are messes , for they rarely turn out to be art. On the second level is intentional art, which much more commonly is accepted as art, but still has a lot of dispute. And on the final level is the universe, which I would term "masterful art", as it is universally acclaimed as of enormous beauty by everyone. "Masterful art" is not likely to spring from the lowest category of art- the mess.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, Part 1 | Valandil | LOTR Discussion Project | 26 | 12-28-2007 06:36 AM |
Rotk - Trivia - Part 3 | Spock | Lord of the Rings Books | 277 | 12-05-2006 11:01 AM |
LotR Films in Retrospect and Changed Opinions | bropous | Lord of the Rings Movies | 41 | 07-14-2006 10:14 AM |
Were the Nazgul free from Sauron for the most part of the Third Age? | Gordis | Middle Earth | 141 | 07-09-2006 07:16 PM |
Theological Opinions | Nurvingiel | General Messages | 992 | 02-10-2006 04:15 PM |