Discussion Thread number 2 Of Nazgûl-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Gordis

But I remember several of us, nazgul, have already sat near a fire for pure pleasure. That I don't buy. With the Chancellor, I handled the situation by making him kindle some magic blue flames, giving no warmth and little light, or change the actual fire in the fireplace into it. So he sat near that fire.
And what do you propose, Udu?

Gordis,

I cannot buy the Nazgul sitting around the fire for pleasure, either. I think they would only go near fire when it was an absolute "must" and there was no other way. The supernatural fires, of course, and the blue flame of that might even be what I consider "a cold fire," ie nothing is being combusted.

There is no way that I could see that a Nazgul could sign up for classes that would involve the standard metalworking apparatus, ie. the forge, the fire, the pouring of metal, the tempering, etc. If Udu ever finds out the history of Mahtaliel, and her involvement with the Mirdain, he might be interested enough to employ a human agent or agents to sign up for her class and do a bit of spying.

Unfortunately, there is no rack convenient to him, or he would even consider that. If he did, that Elf might be significantly taller.

[Willow Oran]

Eek? Methinks Mahtaliel will be spending lots of time in her forge...

What I want to know is how they're going to keep her from seeing their rings. She's hardly blind, and as Gordis has established that she was one of the Mirdain she would likely have been around when the lesser rings of power, (all but the One and the three last I checked,) were made. Are they planning are wearing gloves everytime they have to around her or what?

And for the more hands on classes you can bet that there'll be a 'no jewelry' policy for safety reasons...

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Willow Oran

Eek? Methinks Mahtaliel will be spending lots of time in her forge...

What I want to know is how they're going to keep her from seeing their rings. She's hardly blind, and as Gordis has established that she was one of the Mirdain she would likely have been around when the lesser rings of power, (all but the One and the three last I checked,) were made. Are they planning are wearing gloves everytime they have to around her or what?

Willow, that would involve a whole new discussion and perhaps an addition to the info thread. Remember, Sam and the others were not able to see Nenya upon Galadriel's hand, but Frodo saw it perfectly. There, Galadriel was visible while her Ring was not. Perhaps the Nazgul Rings can be made invisible, as the Three could be.

Originally Posted by Willow Oran

And for the more hands on classes you can bet that there'll be a 'no jewelry' policy for safety reasons...

There are burgulars all over Middle-earth. And kidnappers... And then there are racks, and whips, and thumbscrews, and irons, and chains, and fire, and lots of things to "convince" those reluctant to talk. They are all applied by underlings, though, often with black hoods over their faces, and the "candidate" might never know the identity of those who wish to obtain the information. Whatever you do, do not tell Khamul.

Of course, no one wants that to happen to the Elf. No one deserves the fate of Celerimbidor.

[Willow Oran]

Sorry? Which safety reasons did you think I was referring to? I was referring to the fact that it would be an absolute shame if someone's ring was to get accidentally splashed by corrosive chemicals or anything of the sort...

For the sake of simplicity shall we say that the nazgul's rings can be kept invisible in the same way that they can keep themselves disguised?

[Rían]

As far as fire, I always thought the fire thing was because they didn't have human sight at that point in time, and the heat, smells, etc. kinda messed up what senses they did have. Maybe they don't avoid it when they're in their physical body?

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

As far as fire, I always thought the fire thing was because they didn't have human sight at that point in time, and the heat, smells, etc. kinda messed up what senses they did have. Maybe they don't avoid it when they're in their physical body?

To all -

When it comes to RPG I am fairly liberal. All I ask is that certain factors are agreed upon and are clear to all.

1. Would the Nazgul be uncomfortable, adverse, fearful, etc. near fires?
2. Can the Nine Rings be harmed by fire or other substances, etc.? These Rings were not made in the fires of Mt. Doom like the One Ring. A note: The Dwarf Rings could apparently be destroyed, as stated in the book.
3. Can the Rings be made invisible like Nenya?

Anything that is agreeable to all is agreeable to me.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

that's easy Earniel ... just have tessar teach em' ...

Is he interested in joining this game, or are you just bugging him until he does?

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Yes, I think we can let Swamp Ecology class slip into the quiet backwaters, or none of us will ever get anything done in RL!! I think we have enough classes to keep us busy.

Well then, I'll handle the Irrigation and Swamp Ecology classes myself then with only slipping in one or two references to it. I think that will certainly help the game from becoming too complex to fit in all those classes. Going over the list of courses I notice Eärniel will have no interaction with other students beside Commerce. So I was thinking if I shouldn't let her follow Art History also, especially considering if Swam Ecology and Irrigation are put on a back-burner. She'd have more interaction that way.

Originally Posted by Gordis

Diversity plan, I am afraid, was not yet invented

So Elves get no benefits? Discrimination I say!

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Hey, you guys - I am at an internet cafe right now, as I'm still in the long, arduous process of moving house, and still don't have my own computer to use. I just now logged on, so I have a lot of reading and catching up to do.

Best of luck with the move, Lotesse. I hope you get settled in nicely soon.

Originally Posted by Gordis

They are nice human girls, rightfully concerned that some meanie elves are going to steal Val from them.

I find it ironic that the Elves are constantly accused of man-stealing when in fact they're about the only females in this game NOT intending on winning the King's heart or using him for their own purposes!

Originally Posted by Udukhaturz

Question for all: In this RPG, how can the aversion of the Nazgul to fire be handled? Are we going by the assumption that ALL fire bothers them, or just fire wielded AGAINST them in a threatening manner? Remember, at Pelennor, the Witch-king's sword had supernatural fire running down the blade when he challenged Gandalf. What about ACTUAL fire in which some material is being combusted?

I always assumed they were afraid of fire because it can cast quite a bit of light and because it could burn their disguises. Maybe the Nazgul are just weary of fire, perhaps a bit more than ordinary humans?

About the Rings, I would assume the Rings would only be visible to other ring-bearers when the owner of the ring does not want it to be seen. That would fit with the scene of Galadriel and Nenya. But Mahtaliel might sense something familiar all the same. Just a thought.

[Butterbeer]

in terms of the rpg, it is perhaps best to say they can tolerate fire or heat, but like it not: it may perhaps make them uncomfortable.

since they are now visable and mainly fine with animals with their rings, while sauron is a faint spirit, it may present too many problems esp as winter comes on for them to not be able to be near fire ... this is an AU RPG to some degree...

being attacked by fire i would guess would still be a problem.

as far as we can be canon here, i'd say it took something like dragon fire to destroy one of the nine rings ... so the uni's forges would probably not do the job ... but imagine the pain if a Nazgul's ring fell into the forge!

yes, fair to say the rings may be invisible to any but a wielder of a ring of power ( maybe not any lesser rings that may still float about: like on Mahtaliel's hand perhaps???? )

though IF Mahtaliel did have one??? would the nine either be able to see it or sense it???

EDIT

Earniel:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterbeer
that's easy Earniel ... just have tessar teach em' ...

Earniel:
Is he interested in joining this game, or are you just bugging him until he does?

i was just joking about : ref: the gates of mirkwood
No, i haven't been "bugging" him : though i could if you thought it would be a good idea??

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

in terms of the rpg, it is perhaps best to say they can tolerate fire or heat, but like it not: it may perhaps make them uncomfortable.

since they are now visable and mainly fine with animals with their rings, while sauron is a faint spirit, it may present too many problems esp as winter comes on for them to not be able to be near fire ... this is an AU RPG to some degree...

being attacked by fire i would guess would still be a problem.

as far as we can be canon here, i'd say it took something like dragon fire to destroy one of the nine rings ... so the uni's forges would probably not do the job ... but imagine the pain if a Nazgul's ring fell into the forge!

yes, fair to say the rings may be invisible to any but a wielder of a ring of power ( maybe not any lesser rings that may still float about: like on Mahtaliel's hand perhaps???? )
though IF Mahtaliel did have one??? would the nine either be able to see it or sense it???

I perfectly agree with all BB's points. But I think it better NOT to introduce something so unclear and controversial as a lesser Ring. We know nothing precise about them, actually.

so my reply to Udu's questions

1. Would the Nazgul be uncomfortable, adverse, fearful, etc. near fires?
-Yes, but they can approach a fire if they really have to.

2. Can the Nine Rings be harmed by fire or other substances, etc.?
-Ordinary fire can't destroy the Nine, but it will be very painful for a nazgul, as BB says. Mirdain Forgeâ„¢ fire can maybe destroy the Rings, as it is where they were forged.

3. Can the Rings be made invisible like Nenya?
-Yes, I am sure of it. That is how all of us wear them

AND ADDITIONAL RELATED TOPIC: WATER.

The nazgul must fear flowing water.

SO, I beg you, undead guys and gals, don't you go swimming in the Gwathlo with your sweethearts!

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Gordis

3. Can the Rings be made invisible like Nenya?
-Yes, I am sure of it. That is how all of us wear them

I'm going to ignore that bit for just one instance as I now do my long-awaited post. I hope you will all think it adds to the game. If not, I'll have to change it, I guess.

[Willow Oran]

though IF Mahtaliel did have one??? would the nine either be able to see it or sense it???

There is absolutely no way in udun that this is happening. It's probable that she's seen some of the rings of power, possibly even a few of the nazgul rings, in the past. She certainly knows how to make 'magical' jewelry, probably including lesser rings of power.
But even if there was known to be another ring she wouldn't be the one wearing it. In fact, assume that she has a borderline phobia of rings in general.

Also: Happy Birthday Val!

[Gordis]

There is absolutely no way in Gorgoroth, that Aiwendis would leave her Nazgul Ring visible.

It was a decoy to turn the subject to the Rings.

[Butterbeer]

excellent side-step there, Gor!

whoa!

that was really good, you three (val, willow, gor): yeah adds to the game big time.... well tense... lots of drama... tons of potential plot development...

" ... silence! ... he reads ..."

so... who else may have heard that too?

and who shouted it?
ain't the morgul lord's style, methinks:

maybe the Captain might punish whoever at the very same time Lilly uses the doll?

ideas ... ideas ...

this reception is getting vehrry inter-esting......

[Willow Oran]

*twitch*

We're going to have one seriously paranoid elf as we get deeper and deeper into the game.

[Gordis]

Thanks, BB, I am glad you liked it

WO, there will be many more nasty surprises, believe me...

But please, keep in mind that the story of the Rings of Power and the Elves of Eregion is not a matter of popular knowledge. It is a closely guarded secret.

So who might have gasped when Marty looked at Aiwendis' Ring?

-Mahtaliel, Khamul, Udu, sure.

Morgul Lord and Aiwendis prepared this trick, so they would not gasp.

Marty, Estelmo and most of the mortal guests as well as Earniel ? and Rian ? would probably know nothing of the Rings.

Now what about Val and Orethurion? They would know of the Rings, but how could they suspect Aiwendis had one of the Nine? I believe, nobody ever thought that a nazgul could look as a lovely girl. They never suspected there were she-nazgul. So I think they would not be worried by Aiwendis's ring "Made in Gondolin".

[Lotesse]

Hi, you guys! I'm only online for a minute, but just read that whole tense ring scene. My own thoughts are that theres no way the Nine's rings can be seen by anyone, or even sensed by anybody except a Wizard or a Galadriel-type.
Rian - why have rpg-Rian quit Orrodel? Orodel will fall apart without her; we rallied for Rian to apply & made her Major Domo of an important household, and she's VERY needed there. I really hope Rian does not quit the job at Orrodel.

Shah & Crazy Squirrel - are you around; I haven't seen either of you 4 a couple days now. PLEASE don't leave; I really wouldn't feel so much like playing this RPG if either of you weren't. I know I haven't been able to write the last few days, and I fear it'll be at least one more day before I can, but bear with me - Viv's just on a REALLY long Mearas ride!

TD - I LOVE how utterly asinine Khamul is being; it seems like Khamul and the Chancellor are really the only 2 truly "evil" of us Nine. It's terrific how in character they both stay.

Everybody - killer stuff! I miss being able to write & read with all of you like I normally do. I should like to contribute way more, perhaps even invent another new character like what BB was saying about a Wine App. teacher, whenever I get settled in my new pad. As of now I'm still at an internet cafe paying out the NOSE for minutes online, so...

[Gordis]

Hi, Lotesse!
Don't worry, the reception will continue for several days in real life. You will have time to post for Penny and Viv, and CS will return, I am sure. EH, CS?

Then you will still be able to punish the evil Khamul via the wax doll.

(Actually, I believe the Morgul Lord is much nicer. )

Ciao,
Gor

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Marty, Estelmo and most of the mortal guests as well as Earniel ? and Rian ? would probably know nothing of the Rings.

Given the proximity of Nîn-In-Eilph to Eregion and the fact that I mentioned trade relations, I would say it'd be unlikely that rpg-Eärniel did not know about the rings' existence. (In the beginning I was even toying with the idea to let one or two of the Gwaith-i-MÃ*rdain flee to Nîn-In-Eilph after the destruction of the Ringsmiths but I left that road unexplored in this game.)

rpg-Eärniel would only know that the rings existed and that they can be quite powerful. She would not be able to recognize them on sight although I imagine she would perceive their power when the bearer revealed it. Or would that still be too much? I suppose she deems all the rings destroyed in the down-fall of the Barad-dur after Sauron seized them from Eregion.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Rian - why have rpg-Rian quit Orrodel? Orodel will fall apart without her; we rallied for Rian to apply & made her Major Domo of an important household, and she's VERY needed there. I really hope Rian does not quit the job at Orrodel.

I'm open to go either way, but would want a little more freedom. I really want to take those classes! And I don't know how you'll talk Khamul into it - I think that's the hard part... but let me know.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Given the proximity of Nîn-In-Eilph to Eregion and the fact that I mentioned trade relations, I would say it'd be unlikely that rpg-Eärniel did not know about the rings' existence. (In the beginning I was even toying with the idea to let one or two of the Gwaith-i-MÃ*rdain flee to Nîn-In-Eilph after the destruction of the Ringsmiths but I left that road unexplored in this game.)

rpg-Eärniel would only know that the rings existed and that they can be quite powerful. She would not be able to recognize them on sight although I imagine she would perceive their power when the bearer revealed it. Or would that still be too much? I suppose she deems all the rings destroyed in the down-fall of the Barad-dur after Sauron seized them from Eregion.

No, it is not much, it is just fine

I mostly meant that you and Rian are unlikely to gasp at a mere mention of an Elven Ring.

Rian "RÃ*an and Eärniel walked over to the buffet."
... as she picked up a plate."
Could you, please, change that. There are only wine and fruit provided for the guests in the Reception Hall, because soon everybody will move into the dining Hall and have a really BIG feast!

Rian and Earniel,
I liked your conversation and a mention of strong minds amond the other normal ones