UK Politics

[Nurvingiel]

Not to mention that the inhalation of any burning matter is bad for you.

Even though I don't know much about this subject I'm definately enjoying your discussion on it.

*lurks and enjoys*

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Is that a subtle way of calling him a wanker?

no i was just commenting on the excessive gesturing he employs

Hey what do you think about the increasingly well-documented mental health risks of cannabis? Ironic that just as they're beginning to liberalise the law, along comes a bunch of research that says it's harmful:

i have seen a lot of independent research to the contrary

- it seems to increase risk of relapse in people with schizophrenic disorders

they always roll this one out, ridiculous

- amongst young adults with other risk factors, it seems to increase the risk of schizophrenic disorders in adulthood

see above

- it leads to use of another, more harmful drug: i.e. tobacco

i started on tobaco long before weed, and there aint nowt wrong with me *cough, cough, hack hack*

EDIT: Whoops, forgot the all-important:

[Nurvingiel]

I think we all know pot is bad for you, but then again so is drinking a lot of alcohol, smoking cigarettes, and eating fish from the Baltic Sea more than once a week.

The upcoming British election was briefly featured on the Swedish news. Tony Blair and Michael Howard each had a short quote from an interview. (Charles Kennedy did not get a snippet.)

Blair's went something like this (paraphrase): "I want a country where no matter what your race, religion, gender, colour, or (some other things) is, you still get the chance to make the most of yourself."
Howard's went something like this (paraphrase): "Tony Blair is all talk and no action. And he's been doing nothing but talk and break promises for eight years. You can give him another five years... or you can vote Conservative." If Michael Howard had been in a chatroom he would have said "tony blair is t3h suxxx00rzzz!!!!!!!111".

Howard's technique has been employed in Canadian politics more than once by opposition parties. Basically, the government has had plenty of chances to break their promises and screw something up. The opposition, on the other hand, merely has to keep from looking like morons in debates. It's a lot easier for them to criticize failed attempts from the government, since they don't have to attempt anything (not as major anyway) themselves. I suppose this situation occurs in Britain too.

The problem with this is Howard's (et al) reasoning is it gives a reason not to vote for the other guy (if he does, in fact, suck), but why should you vote for Howard? He has to at least prove that he doesn't suck as much as Tony Blair.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

it is the usual tactic in run up to election
gov't: we are going to do this next term
opposition: gov't didn't do this last term, we will
lib dems: we actually will do this next term, but we know you won't vote for us

[Nurvingiel]

People aren't going to vote LibDem? What they propose certainly seems appealing to me. Here's some of their goals from their top 10 list:

WE OPPOSE:
Tuition fees & top up fees
WE PROPOSE:
Scrapping student fees
Further education affordable to every student

Elsewhere on this page, they state they already abolished tuition fees in Scotland. Needless to say, I'm impressed.

2 questions this page brought up for me... what's means-testing, as in "means-testing pensionners"? And what's compulsory ID cards? That one seems a bit pointless - I mean, won't people who need an ID card make sure they have one?
In BC, if you don't have a driver's licence (common form of 'official' ID), you can get a BC Identification Card for $35. link

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

means testing is working out how much someone can afford to pay of tax, or how much benefit they should receive by examining their income and expenditure

the gov't was thinking of bringing in compulsory ID cards, and they would charge you for this privelidge of putting you in a police state and these cards would hold your medical records, bank details, employment records and criminal records on microchips, along with fingerprints and retinal scans disgusting if y'ask me

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

means testing is working out how much someone can afford to pay of tax, or how much benefit they should receive by examining their income and expenditure

Thanks Chrys. I have knowledge. I'm not sure what to make of this knowledge, but I have it.

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

the gov't was thinking of bringing in compulsory ID cards, and they would charge you for this privelidge of putting you in a police state and these cards would hold your medical records, bank details, employment records and criminal records on microchips, along with fingerprints and retinal scans disgusting if y'ask me

I would be embarassed to even propose such a stupid idea! I mean... retinal scans!? My goodness. (Does Labour still propose to do this thing? Is there a lot/some/no support for this idea?)

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

there was support from tony's cronies, but the public do not want it generally,
i don't know if it is still planned
but i think it was chucked out with david blunkett, it was one of his great ideas

[Draken]

The ID card bill was scheduled for the last year of this parliament: as the election has been called a year earlier than the statutory limit this bill (and I imagine others) will either not happen or will be delayed.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i am favouring the former over the latter

[The Gaffer]

Unfortunately, it will probably be carried over to the next parliament if Labour wins. I am against them as well; I think they're fundamentally illiberal. The benefits are far outweighed by the risks. If they do bring 'em in, let's line up to burn 'em.

Actually, LCoU, there's been a lot of recent research re pot and MH. While I'd agree that just because something is harmful doesn't mean you should ban it, I think there's also a lot of misconceptions that it's just a "beneficial weed", particularly the much more potent skunk you get these days.

Back to topic, a great sketch by Hoggart in today's Grauniad, commenting on how:

Tony Blair launched the election yesterday with that weird blend of the ceremonial, the mundane, the pompous and the just plain silly that the British do so well. And so often. He could have been announcing a great event in one of the world's oldest democracies, or a whist drive.

(NOTE to non-Brits or those under the age of 30: a whist drive is a mass card game popular amongst grannies in the 1950s).

Another classy observation, on the formality of how he has to "ask" the Queen to dissolve Parliament:

He told us he had just asked the Queen to dissolve parliament, "which she has graciously consented to do." Wouldn't it be great if just once she did it ungraciously? If she stubbed out a fag, coughed, and said, "orright, then, but frankly, I've had it up to here wiv you lot calling elections early just because you fink you can win..."

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by the gaffer

Actually, LCoU, there's been a lot of recent research re pot and MH. While I'd agree that just because something is harmful doesn't mean you should ban it, I think there's also a lot of misconceptions that it's just a "beneficial weed", particularly the much more potent skunk you get these days.

oh, dont get me wrong, i'm not saying there's nothjing wrong wi' a birra weed, i'm just saying it hasn't adversely affected me, and that ther is a lot of evidence pointing to good effects as well as that which points to bad

good queen bit, i like that

[Janny]

Oh yeah... come on 'Up, up up... down, down, down.'

*Does the new Tory dance*

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Janny

Oh yeah... come on 'Up, up up... down, down, down.'

*Does the new Tory dance*

ok thats cemented it for me, janny has officially gone mad

[Janny]

Did you see Prime Minister's Questions?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

only a bit on itv news

[Janny]

Ah, the bit they showed on ITV was actually much longer, and had a 'down, down, down' bit. It had a kinda dancing rhythm, baby, to whoo the young voters

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

dont succumb if you must vote for the big three, go yellow!

green or LCA is good too

[Janny]

I'm too young. I'm only seventeen damit.
But I'm in the old seat of Johnathon Aitken, so we're held by Labour but it's really a Tory constiuency, so I probably would vote Tory (it would be quite marginal in th end).

[The Gaffer]

Tory voters are far more likely to actually vote than Labour, and in 2001 there was a hell of a lot of anti-tory tactical voting by Labour and LibDems to keep the Tories out, which I don't think will be repeated this time (it's certainly hard to imagine LibDem supporters voting Labour tactically this time).

It will be interesting to see how the Labour strategy to woo disaffected voters unfolds. They seem to be playing the "hold your nose and vote for Tony and you'll get Gordon Brown in a couple of years" card at the moment.

However, that's better than the racist, reactionary and negative cards the Tories are relying on (immigration, gypsies, etc). It has to be said, the thought of Howard getting in is truly appalling and is almost enough to make me vote for Labour.