11-13-2005, 06:40 PM | #341 | ||
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it was a good post, and, i remember reading it,whats your point in reposting it?
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11-13-2005, 10:27 PM | #342 |
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I can't see what the big deal is in KS. All they did was allow criticism of Evolution. That's it. No "establishment of fundamentalist fanatic Christianity". No teaching of ID. So all the evolutionists are just being paranoid and using us as an excuse to promote atheistic evolution and attack theism. And I do resent that.
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11-13-2005, 11:09 PM | #343 | |||
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Curubethion, it seems there's more to it than simply allowing criticism of Evolution. After all, any school in North America can point out the weak points in ToE without changing their mandate. So why did they change then?
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11-14-2005, 01:11 AM | #344 |
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What Nurvingiel said, plus they changed the definition of science.
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11-14-2005, 01:57 AM | #345 | |
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Count, I thought that the revisions were in my link. They had them last time I looked at it.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-14-2005, 02:02 AM | #346 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-14-2005, 02:26 AM | #347 | |||
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The motivation of the Kansas school board appears to be the promotion of ID rather than the promotion of good science.
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11-14-2005, 02:38 AM | #348 |
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I strongly disagree but am too tired to put a coherent response together *yawn*
I had a wonderful harp weekend - details on the happy thread tomorrow! g'nite!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-14-2005, 02:46 AM | #349 |
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Rian - what link you posted with the definitions? The one with the comparative study doesn't include the new Kansas guidelines, just the old ones and the other states' (and I just went back and checked - I hope I'm not missing something).
One shouldn't backtrack from a more accurate definition of science, and I feel Kansas had a more accurate definition than the other states did. Clearly, if it were wrong, I'd agree one should backtrack. But it isn't/wasn't, so An important point to remember is that we're not, in the school board cases, talking about people who are actively going out and investigating new realms of scientific thought (I don't really think we are when we discuss ID in any event, but certainly not in the school board cases). We're talking about what gets taught to kids in school. I don't think that the emphasis on potential inaccuracies in evolution is actually beneficial to their science education. It may be valuable in a research setting, but not in a basic instructional one. EDIT: maybe that's why, although anyone can teach the gaps in evolution already, very few do?
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11-14-2005, 05:02 AM | #350 |
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Just a moment to smile-Kansas is a "special state"
P.S. YES, I watched TWOO again last evening and it looked better than ever.
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11-14-2005, 11:09 AM | #351 | |
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it applies to all things that will be studied for the rest of the year... evolution, gravity, stellar formation, etc. i'd suggest you look at some actual science textbooks R*an... i checked out my own son's (currently in 6th grade), who is in the "liberal" northest... and it is very specific about what the difference is between theory and fact
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11-17-2005, 05:24 PM | #352 | ||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-17-2005, 05:26 PM | #353 |
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Nurvi - I was going to try to summarize some ID stuff, but I think these articles will probably be more helpful. Go to www.discovery.org and read some of them - I think they are well-written, insightful, and do NOT contain all the ridicules of the opposing side that sadly, I see coming from some evolutionist articles about ID. Most of the articles about ID are in the right-hand column.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-17-2005, 05:47 PM | #354 | |
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an explanation of scientific "fact" and "theory" from a science textbook:
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11-18-2005, 01:24 AM | #355 | ||||||
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Definitions of State Science Standards According to the full text, this is Kansas' definition (bolding mine): Quote:
Except, in a different article (Intelligent Design: Professors discuss Teaching the Controversial Subject, the author writes: Quote:
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I can tell you one way to teach anything, including Creationism: forthrightly! R*an, what is Cascadia? According to this part of the site, it is a "bi-national region".
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11-18-2005, 01:36 PM | #356 |
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Cascadia is my beloved homeland (I'm from Seattle). It's used to refer to the area between the Cascade Mountains and the sea, and so extends from British Columbia down to Oregon (hence, binational, since BC is in Canada). Discovery Institute has some weird ideas about development in Cascadia, along with their ID stuff.
That, what you quoted Nurv, and (unless there is yet another link) what you linked to Rian, is the old definition (2001, I believe). The new one isn't online yet anywhere that I can find... I quoted from the August draft of it somewhere upthread, but I've been unable to find the actual one that was voted on. I still don't believe that poking holes in theories is a good idea in basic instruction. We don't teach deconstructionism in high school English. We don't teach postmodern culture theory in high school History. Both of those are dedicated (to the extent that they can be pigeonholed) to pointing out the flaws in previous interpretations. I don't see a reason to teach science differently. Definitions like what bj posted, which tell students how science uses terms are good. But I don't think that the (potential) holes in evolution are any more necessary to a basic education (which is what primary and secondary schools provide) than the other two examples I just mentioned - and I don't believe any of them should be there.
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11-18-2005, 04:34 PM | #357 | |
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You know, I never in my wildest dreams thought Id ever say that I agree completely with arch conservative Charles Krauthammer on ANYTHING but by gum boy did he hit the nail on the head in this article on Intelligent Design. And remember before you go off on him for being some godless liberal with an agenda, this is one of the most conservative journalists out there. Hes certainly up there with George Will and the like:
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11-18-2005, 06:49 PM | #358 | ||||||
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I don't know anything about the guy as a journalist IRex, but Wordy McWord from Wordistan:
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What is the current definition then? If they dropped "natural explanations...", did they also drop the last phrase about not being able to test the supernatural? Quote:
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11-18-2005, 09:13 PM | #359 |
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Nurv, did you get to read any of the articles at the Discovery Institute, whose members include non-Christians and agnostics, btw?
I'm sorry to see Charles Krauthammer apparently didn't bother to research ID very much at ALL, judging by the lines he wrote. If he is who I think he is, I've liked what he has had to say before. Count, I have some more things to address that you've brought up, but it's SO hard - I'm SO weary of this subject, esp. because of the anger and ridicule that so often comes along with the discussions and articles involved. (not from you, though)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-19-2005, 12:57 PM | #360 | |
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to feel strongly against a belief does not have to mean you feel strongly against the individual who holds it
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