The Happy Thread V - Page 18

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-13-2011, 01:15 AM

Well, really, who doesn't?

***Earniel*** · 03-13-2011, 07:45 AM

Isn't cheating on an Ethics exam an immediate fail?

**Mari** · 03-13-2011, 09:37 AM

Depends on what your personal ethics are. Ethics are after all not fixed.

EllethValatari · 03-13-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valandil

On an even happier note: I've been involved for a long time in a Bible study/competition program called 'Bible Quizzing'. My oldest son started doing it last year - and he and a few others from our tiny little church are really kicking it in gear. This past weekend we went to one of the top invitationals - teams come from hundreds (even a thousand) miles away. And I was totally shocked - but our team was 4th of the 36 teams there!!!

Lots of fun.

Congrats Val! I have a friend who competes in Bible Quizzing. Was the invitational in California? I know she went last year and it was there. Great job on 4th place!

***Earniel*** · 03-14-2011, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari

Depends on what your personal ethics are. Ethics are after all not fixed.

Dunno about that. Just because someone has no problem with cheating, doesn't make his actions ethical.

**Mari** · 03-14-2011, 02:17 PM

From your point of view (and that of the general Western public) not perhaps, but some people may see it as a point of honour to be able to cheat without getting caught. For some people it is ethical because they give 'the opponent' the chance to catch them at it.
There are loads of different ethics out there and not all of them compare to ours. Just ask my international students

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Dunno about that. Just because someone has no problem with cheating, doesn't make his actions ethical.

Careful, dear. You're careening awfully close to proposing objectively meaningful morality, or some similar absurdity.

***Earniel*** · 03-14-2011, 04:33 PM

You know, I can't even understand what you're saying. Which reminds me again of why I find philosophical debates so utterly pointless. So I'm off to do something useful instead.

**Mari** · 03-15-2011, 11:52 AM

Hmm, I didn't think my post was that hard to understand, but okay

***Jonathan*** · 03-15-2011, 02:15 PM

I'm with Gwai on this one

***Earniel*** · 03-15-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari

Hmm, I didn't think my post was that hard to understand, but okay

Oh, it was a reply to Gwaimir. Yours was fine, although I may not agree.

But it was Gwai's I didn't get.

***Jonathan*** · 03-15-2011, 04:14 PM

Just the fact that you don't agree with Mari, kind of proves her point I think...

***Earniel*** · 03-15-2011, 04:58 PM

I don't know, unless you are all three saying that ethics (system of moral principles and rules of behaviour as according to the dictionary) are completely subjective and entirely, 100% personal? And that ethics on level of societies do not exist? I didn't get that impression at first.

[EDIT: Oh, I see I missed Mari's second post, I was still referring to the first one when I said I may not agree.]

But frankly, I'm going to drop it. We've gone off topic already far enough and I have the sneaking suspicion there's a fundamental confusion of thoughts.

***Tessar*** · 03-15-2011, 10:41 PM

Earniel, ethics are not entirely personal because (at least as we've discussed in my classes) what we consider to be "good, ethical behavior," tends to function on the modified version of the Golden Rule, "Do not do unto others as you would not wish them to do unto you." And there are many things that people can agree they don't want someone else to do to them.

For instance, if you go by that rule, is it ethical to run past someone dying in the street if you can help them? No. But it might be completely ethical to run past them if you knew that by ignoring them you could save hundreds of other lives, and if you stopped to help that one person, the hundreds of others would die.

Of course what if saving that one person, and letting the hundreds die, meant that the person you saved could then go and save millions of others?

Ethics are actually fairly subjective and require context. Because we don't have a way of seeing the future perfectly (i.e. how could you know that one person could save millions?), there is a concept which puts forward that you are not responsible for whether your ethical beliefs are "right" or "wrong," but are instead responsible for how you came to those beliefs. If your belief was that by ignoring the one person you could save hundreds, it might be unethical (assuming you value mass human life over a single life) to stop. If you knew that person could save the millions, it might be unethical for you to pass them by.

.... can we tell I've only had half a semester? Tessar doesn't know what he's talking about.

Earniel

I'm actually really, really enjoying the ethics class. It's giving me a much better context for understanding people around me, and frankly just gives me THAT MUCH MORE ability to judge people for things other than the fact that their socks don't match their belt.

It's also giving me some really interesting insights into religious belief.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-15-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

It's giving me a much better context for understanding people around me, and frankly just gives me THAT MUCH MORE ability to judge people for things other than the fact that their socks don't match their belt.

And, as we all know, the real point of morality is being able to look down on other people.

***Tessar*** · 03-15-2011, 11:58 PM

Thanks for the memo, Captain Obvious. I think we all already knew that ethics is here to teach us how to make fun of others.

I missed you guys.

***Tessar*** · 03-16-2011, 04:09 PM

WOOHOO!!!

I just started working on the Mozart Sonata 545k on Monday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPo3u...eature=related) and yesterday evening I was seriously thinking of giving it up, because it was hurting my hands to try to play it and I couldn't get some of it to work... but today I sat down and played the first page with only minor difficulty and it didn't bother my hands.

So hooray!

I wonder if it only hurt me because I haven't had a chance to practice piano in so long and then I tried to hop back in with a "tough" piece.

Nerdanel · 03-17-2011, 04:52 PM

i'm going to the uk for 3 weeks in april, because s is spending 2 months there, and i don't have anything that binds me here now. when we come back, we head straight to morocco for 3 weeks, after which my field season starts and i can go hang out on the sunny islands again.

***Jonathan*** · 03-18-2011, 05:56 AM

Whereto in the UK and Morocco are you heading?

Nerdanel · 03-18-2011, 09:30 AM

Norwich, UK and Ain Aouda (outside Rabat) in Morocco (to visit my parents-in-law).

03-13-2011, 01:15 AM	#341
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Well, really, who doesn't? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-13-2011, 07:45 AM	#342
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Isn't cheating on an Ethics exam an immediate fail? __________________ We are not things.

03-13-2011, 09:37 AM	#343
Mari Elf Lady Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale Posts: 8,588	Depends on what your personal ethics are. Ethics are after all not fixed. __________________ Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply. ...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"...

03-14-2011, 02:17 PM	#346
Mari Elf Lady Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale Posts: 8,588	From your point of view (and that of the general Western public) not perhaps, but some people may see it as a point of honour to be able to cheat without getting caught. For some people it is ethical because they give 'the opponent' the chance to catch them at it. There are loads of different ethics out there and not all of them compare to ours. Just ask my international students __________________ Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply. ...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"...

03-14-2011, 04:33 PM	#348
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	You know, I can't even understand what you're saying. Which reminds me again of why I find philosophical debates so utterly pointless. So I'm off to do something useful instead. __________________ We are not things.

03-15-2011, 11:52 AM	#349
Mari Elf Lady Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale Posts: 8,588	Hmm, I didn't think my post was that hard to understand, but okay __________________ Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply. ...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"...

03-15-2011, 02:15 PM	#350
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	I'm with Gwai on this one __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

03-15-2011, 04:14 PM	#352
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Just the fact that you don't agree with Mari, kind of proves her point I think... __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

03-15-2011, 04:58 PM	#353
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I don't know, unless you are all three saying that ethics (system of moral principles and rules of behaviour as according to the dictionary) are completely subjective and entirely, 100% personal? And that ethics on level of societies do not exist? I didn't get that impression at first. [EDIT: Oh, I see I missed Mari's second post, I was still referring to the first one when I said I may not agree.] But frankly, I'm going to drop it. We've gone off topic already far enough and I have the sneaking suspicion there's a fundamental confusion of thoughts. __________________ We are not things.

03-15-2011, 10:41 PM	#354
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	Earniel, ethics are not entirely personal because (at least as we've discussed in my classes) what we consider to be "good, ethical behavior," tends to function on the modified version of the Golden Rule, "Do not do unto others as you would not wish them to do unto you." And there are many things that people can agree they don't want someone else to do to them. For instance, if you go by that rule, is it ethical to run past someone dying in the street if you can help them? No. But it might be completely ethical to run past them if you knew that by ignoring them you could save hundreds of other lives, and if you stopped to help that one person, the hundreds of others would die. Of course what if saving that one person, and letting the hundreds die, meant that the person you saved could then go and save millions of others? Ethics are actually fairly subjective and require context. Because we don't have a way of seeing the future perfectly (i.e. how could you know that one person could save millions?), there is a concept which puts forward that you are not responsible for whether your ethical beliefs are "right" or "wrong," but are instead responsible for how you came to those beliefs. If your belief was that by ignoring the one person you could save hundreds, it might be unethical (assuming you value mass human life over a single life) to stop. If you knew that person could save the millions, it might be unethical for you to pass them by. .... can we tell I've only had half a semester? Tessar doesn't know what he's talking about. Earniel I'm actually really, really enjoying the ethics class. It's giving me a much better context for understanding people around me, and frankly just gives me THAT MUCH MORE ability to judge people for things other than the fact that their socks don't match their belt. It's also giving me some really interesting insights into religious belief.

03-15-2011, 11:58 PM	#356
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	Thanks for the memo, Captain Obvious. I think we all already knew that ethics is here to teach us how to make fun of others. I missed you guys.

03-16-2011, 04:09 PM	#357
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	WOOHOO!!! I just started working on the Mozart Sonata 545k on Monday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPo3u...eature=related) and yesterday evening I was seriously thinking of giving it up, because it was hurting my hands to try to play it and I couldn't get some of it to work... but today I sat down and played the first page with only minor difficulty and it didn't bother my hands. So hooray! I wonder if it only hurt me because I haven't had a chance to practice piano in so long and then I tried to hop back in with a "tough" piece.

03-17-2011, 04:52 PM	#358
Nerdanel Spammer of the Happy Thread Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 3,512	i'm going to the uk for 3 weeks in april, because s is spending 2 months there, and i don't have anything that binds me here now. when we come back, we head straight to morocco for 3 weeks, after which my field season starts and i can go hang out on the sunny islands again. __________________ "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page

03-18-2011, 05:56 AM	#359
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Whereto in the UK and Morocco are you heading? __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

03-18-2011, 09:30 AM	#360
Nerdanel Spammer of the Happy Thread Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 3,512	Norwich, UK and Ain Aouda (outside Rabat) in Morocco (to visit my parents-in-law). __________________ "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page

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