Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Lotesse]

Yes, funny you should mention that! She's incredibly agile, like a tightrope walker indeed. (remember she's the worlds best catburglar, can walk around VISIBLE and remain undetected if that's what she's trying to do, plus scale walls and all sorts of gymnast-y types of things!)Are you referring to that rope-across-the-river thing that the Fellowship did that one time?

[Lotesse]

Here's a picture of Laslech. I wanted to make her black, after I thought about it, so that she can be a true Nazgul horse. Is this O.K., Shah?

http://www.blackarabs.com/0083w.jpg

[Gordis]

Orrodel plan

Ground floor
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/orrodel1.jpg
First Floor
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/orrodel2.jpg
Second Floor
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/orrodel3.jpg

Comments and suggestions appreciated.

And here is the corrected map of Tharbad, to use instead of this map
3. A wider view of the City of Tharbad
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/Tharbad8.jpg

BB Please put it all into the Info thread, when all say OK
Please note, do not take down map links 1 and 2, they are correct. Change ONLY #3. A wider view of the City of Tharbad
And please add three maps of Orrodel.

[Butterbeer]

ok - glad i don't need to do it now .. i am off to bed! night all.

well, it looks like a simple tragedy - case closed.

cheers for the watch tower, barge and singing swan!

[The last sane person]

Perfectly fine with me, she IS black, all my horses for the most part are. Except Volri, Ithilion, Rakhsh, and a few others. One thing though, she isnt and Arab, she is a Barb. I'll see if I have a picture of her.

[Rían]

Hey, Sane, salum ashghi chetori!

(not that I'll understand your answer!)

TD - I responded to your post, let me know of any edits you'd like

Eärniel - ditto

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Hey Rian, looks like Mahtaliel was able to join you in front of Orrodel after all.

[Rían]

Yes! Yessssssss!!!!!! *punches fist in air*



(I was hoping you would!!!! Or else our rpg might have ended very quickly and unpleasantly!! )

I'm not sure when I'll be able to respond, but I'll try to tomorrow, between battling a cold, attending soccer games, and hosting company at our house ... (weekends are NOT generally good for posting for me! But they're good family times )

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

between battling a cold, attending soccer games, and hosting company at our house ... (weekends are NOT generally good for posting for me! But they're good family times )

Oy. Sounds all too familiar, except I've had it from 'older sister' instead of 'mother' point of view. Not sure which is worse. Older sisters get to opt out of attending the soccer games, but generally get stuck with cleaning the house instead...

[Rían]

heehee!! Yes, my kids have their assigned jobs ....

ANyway, I got in a quick response, so you guys can take it from there.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

No problem, it was only a joke made by Morgul Lord to Tolvadok. He knows nothing of swamps, and hates them, understandably, as there is water).

Swamp Ecology is all yours. Invent a professor, if you need.

Mkay, it makes sense now. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

Earniel, you did want your character added to the art history class, yes?

Yes indeed, thank you.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Eärniel - ditto

It's fine, just a brief reminder: RPG-Eärniel still has to have lessons from Galadannun, RPG-RÃ*an isn't really doing her a favour if she and Khamul are going to make scene over being sacked with RPG-Eärniel present. I'm not telling you to change anything or that you shouldn't agonize him any further (because Khamul is deliciously infuriating); it's just a reminder. On the whole it might get... eh interesting in the Swan Speech classes later.

Now that was a very daring way to solve the Melwen-problem. I find it kind of funny that while the Morgul-Lord just reminded them to lay low, they use no other way to get rid of Melwen than publically march her through the street and throw her of the bridge. Interesting interpretation of their lord's order.

And while we're on the subject on interpretation, I have run into such a problem. I was re-reading somewhat on the Info-thread to refresh a few things and I came across this in the nazgul-rules:

- A nazgul can’t be in both worlds at once. If he is invisible, he does not see material objects, can’t read a letter for instance. If he is visible, he can’t see the Spirit world objects, so another invisible nazgul or a wraith can pass by him unnoticed.

But since we've had Viv burglaring Val's place in invisible mode; The Morgul-lord, Aiwendis and Tolvadok finding their way to Orrodel and entering in invisible mode; and Khamul and Penny capturing and escorting Melwen to her doom while invisible, I am somewhat confused. So I have to take it that the nazgul sight of material things when in the spirit world is actually remarkably good and that they only can't see rather tiny details such as letters? Please help me out here.

[Gordis]

Rian, re your post #461 "For the one that I live in has servants going where they shouldn't at all hours of the night, and servants going missing, and wine bottles strewn around the kitchen."

Please remove "servants going missing"! That is a dead give-away. Khamul is not stupid. The scene is set at DAWN, while Zimra started looking for Melwen around NINE AM. So, Khamul will not disclose his knowledge of Melwen's disappearance before she was told about it by his servants.

Actually, I think, rpg-Rian is too haughty even for a servant that has decided to quit. Any employer would have got mad and rightly. Moreover, Lilly told her when she was hired, that NO ELVES were allowed in the house. And now, lo and behold, you are bringing three!

Rian, Please, post the conversation of Arastud and Zimra in the stable. Zimra accusing him of ravishing her cousin.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Now that was a very daring way to solve the Melwen-problem. I find it kind of funny that while the Morgul-Lord just reminded them to lay low, they use no other way to get rid of Melwen than publicly march her through the street and throw her of the bridge. Interesting interpretation of their lord's order.

The Morgul Lord hasn't heard of Melwen, but I believe he will approve, when Khamul reports. It was a very clever staging of a public accident.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

And while we're on the subject on interpretation, I have run into such a problem. I was re-reading somewhat on the Info-thread to refresh a few things and I came across this in the nazgul-rules:

But since we've had Viv burglaring Val's place in invisible mode; The Morgul-lord, Aiwendis and Tolvadok finding their way to Orrodel and entering in invisible mode; and Khamul and Penny capturing and escorting Melwen to her doom while invisible, I am somewhat confused. So I have to take it that the nazgul sight of material things when in the spirit world is actually remarkably good and that they only can't see rather tiny details such as letters? Please help me out here.

[/Quote]

I don't see problem here. Nazgul in invisible mode are in Spirit World, exactly like nazgul in LOTR and like Sam and Frodo with the Ring on.

'Can the Riders see?' asked Merry. 'I mean, they seem usually to have used their noses rather than their eyes, smelling for us, if smelling is the right word, at least in the daylight. But you made us lie down flat when you saw them down below; and now you talk of being seen, if we move.'
'I was too careless on the hill-top,' answered Strider. 'I was very anxious to find some sign of Gandalf; but it was a mistake for three of us to go up and stand there so long. For the black horses can see, and the Riders can use men and other creatures as spies, as we found at Bree. They themselves do not see the world of light as we do, but our shapes cast shadows in their minds, which only the noon sun destroys; and in the dark they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are most to be feared. And at all times they smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it. Senses, too, there are other than sight or smell. We can feel their presence - it troubled our hearts, as soon as we came here, and before we saw them; they feel ours more keenly.

Sam: The world changed, and a single moment of time was filled with an hour of thought. At once he was aware that hearing was sharpened while sight was dimmed, but otherwise than in Shelob's lair. All things about him now were not dark but vague; while he himself was there in a grey hazy world, alone, like a small black solid rock and the Ring, weighing down his left hand, was like an orb of hot gold.

While in the Spirit World, the nazgul see each other perfectly, the way they look in the spirit World - in helms and grey or white robes; the ML wears a gleaming crown. They see spirits and ghosts and fairies. They see things of material world as pale shadows, and use their noses and other senses. So no reading of letters, probably difficulty to recognise someone, unless by smell.

But still, they are not completely blind. Sam found his way to Shelob's tunnel and followed the orcs, he even found that in the dark he saw more than usually. Nazgul travelled in ME on their own and could find their way. Actually they could even use maps and lists of names they have got from Saruman’s spy (see UT

I made Aiwendis use her nose, more than her eyes when moving through corridors with servants. The ML, Aiwendis and Tolvadok found their way to Orrodel, but probably could not admire the mansion's architecture.
And Buz and Khamul located Melwen in the court by smell and they saw her shadow, gripped her and dragged along to the bridge. They needn't remarkably good sight for it. Perhaps they even could use Melwen's sight as they could use their horses sight in LOTR, but, perhaps, it is a bit far-fetching.

So the only problem in all the nazgul posts so far is Viniglaen searching the King's house. But perhaps she turned visible once inside, searched the house and then turned invisible again? Perhaps,Lotesse should find that old post and add a sentence there.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

No editing request except the one that Gordis said. I have left Tyaron's response for you to post, or maybe Algaron will respond to his sister's firing.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

It's fine, just a brief reminder: RPG-Eärniel still has to have lessons from Galadannun, RPG-RÃ*an isn't really doing her a favour if she and Khamul are going to make scene over being sacked with RPG-Eärniel present. I'm not telling you to change anything or that you shouldn't agonize him any further (because Khamul is deliciously infuriating); it's just a reminder. On the whole it might get... eh interesting in the Swan Speech classes later.

The way I look at it is that RÃ*an is defending herself against false accusations, and she is "on her dignity"; polite but firm, because she KNOWS she had done a darn good job. She doesn't want a scene, but neither will she stand hearing false accusations without defending herself. And with the things that Khamul said to her last night, unprovoked and without reason (at least that Rian could see), she's letting a little contempt into her voice. I was thinking of having Eärniel support her friend, but decided the best thing would be for her to stay quiet.

Originally Posted by Gordis

Please remove "servants going missing"! That is a dead give-away. Khamul is not stupid. The scene is set at DAWN, while Zimra started looking for Melwen around NINE AM. So, Khamul will not disclose his knowledge of Melwen's disappearance before she was told about it by his servants.

No, he isn't stupid - he is referring to, on the surface, RIAN going missing, and enjoying the knowledge that he has that she's not the ONLY one missing, altho no one else knows it yet! That was my intent. After all, he just accused her of being late.

Actually, I think, rpg-Rian is too haughty even for a servant that has decided to quit. Any employer would have got mad and rightly.

Given his treatment of her last night, I disagree. And what should he have to be mad ABOUT? She was quite right; she's done a stellar job.

Moreover, Lilly told her when she was hired, that NO ELVES were allowed in the house. And now, lo and behold, you are bringing three!

Again - they are not in the house!!! They are in a PUBLIC street. And she never intended to LET them in the house. Earniel was in the house on her first day, but I don't recall Lilly saying the no elves thing, only don't HIRE elves. But I could be mistaken.

Given these explanations, I think what I wrote can stand, unless you guys really feel strongly about it and can give me better reasons, ok?

I'll put in Arastud's conversation as soon as I can, but possibly not until Monday. Someone can write it for me if they want to, but basically I'm having him a pretty good guy, and faithful to Annawen. And he did NOT do what Zimra accused him of, even though he had quite the opportunity, so I think he would definitely defend himself.

[Butterbeer]

well, im off ..see you guys on monday!

interesting point earniel ..guess it should be bore in mind in future ...

so... does rian get to resign or will she be fired?

good to see khamul lying low and not arousing any suspicion ... esp in front of the lady of nin in eliph, professor mahtaliel and two gondolin elves ...

yes, the captain's "stern words' really went in!

Gor i am beginning to feel that the captain is weak!

IF he did not EVEN know of the maid incident before he left orrodel he would be bloddy furious he was not told .... did he not even say (along lines of) bring everything to him? then they kill her without his knowledge even? what is our morgul lord - a puppet leader, a figure head on a string?

The manner and execution were well done .. but the captain not even knowing?


btw, why is there a leader at orrodel? what purpose does this serve but to weaken his own authority (ML's) and annoy the other nazgul, causing tensions ... ??

it is a house in tharbad with 4 nazgul in it not baradur, or Dol guldur: no great stronghold or city or kingdom ... a mere house ... is this wise of the captain - espcially when khamul seems intent on nothing but attacking, angering and blowing his top with everyone from all his fellow nazgul, to elves, fellow professors and innocent maids ...

the captain wants calm and secrecy so hands control away to the most hot tempered evil and irrational nazgul imaginable?

and does nothing when time after time he blatantly disobeys him?

he has not been told???? of the maid ... she has been killed against his orders ... (because he knew nothing of it and was not even consulted - this despite saying bring these things to him? - )

then he stands in public insulting high profile elves and Professors: when Rian has come to quit which he should be pleased at since it saves him the bother of firing her .... but no, khamul cannot think straight like a leader and a nazgul of many many years experience ... he wants some childish foolish PUBLIC shouting match, ytempers flaring and making ememies publcally indeed to the point of very close to an actual knife fight or duel?

Is it any wonder that others assume Our side (not they) want to end this game suddenly????

sorry, but its getting freakin ridiculous:

we need the captain to step in Gor!

this is ok with you, is it?

the maid murdered, the capatian not knowing what goes on?

his orders flouted seconds after he leaves?

the naz angered again by khamul, and khamul on the verge of public fighting because the major domo (hardly a servant - and one seen in high company the night before - dancing with the king, known to some degree by ray and marty etc )

why, because someone he wants to get rid off, wants to leave?

so,the plan, viv and lilly to buddy up to ray and marty: ok lets fu** up the whole family image and piss of the kings and martys and rays acqauaintances and professors, ie Rian, and earniel and Mahtaliel : that will help the cause!

yes, that lovely not wierd at all family from orrodel ... yes the mysterious ones who arrived a few days ago .... plus we have Buz and lilly stand there and say nothing! as he is so rude to these eminent guests ...

I fear the Morgul lord has no choice now but to see it as a direct and deliberate challenge to his authority.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

then he stands in public insulting high profile elves and Professors: when Rian has come to quit which he should be pleased at since it saves him the bother of firing her .... but no, khamul cannot think straight like a leader and a nazgul of many many years experience ... he wants some childish foolish PUBLIC shouting match, ytempers flaring and making ememies publcally indeed to the point of very close to an actual knife fight or duel?

Having it take place in public was my personal request to TD, because I thought that made it a great chance to have veiled insults flying under cover of politeness, and Khamul unable to kill anyone.

And I also specifically asked him to have Buz and Lilly there (which I thought would be natural, anyway) because I reeeeeeely wanted to get in the insult about "woman-striker".

Tyaron and Alagos are not "high profile elves" that anyone knows of; they are of noble houses in Gondolin, but that was a long time ago and doesn't really matter here to most people ... Earniel is a different story, though, but he's not insulting her.

Guys- this is NOT a shouting match by any means! It is a rather intense, but from all appearences POLITE, conversation right outside of Orrodel. They are speaking low, and the onlookers can't hear.

I thought it would be a fun scene - Khamul having to control his temper and limit himself to nasty words and even to trying to provoke his opponents to do something (which he almost did, altho all Alagos was going to do was to "call him out" to a fight - he would never kill a man unchallenged).

This is NOT a brawl; it's one of those quiet but intensely angry things that are sugar-coated with polite tones. Perhaps TD and I can do a few more edits, emphasizing the low but polite tones, and that would help.

I do not see this scene at ALL problematic. I think you guys misinterpreted it a bit, but with us adding some details, I think it will be fine.



EDIT -

I've beefed up the polite and quiet tone thing in my posts - see if that's better, guys.

TD post 464 - could you please change "replied Rian sarcastically" to "replied Rian stiffly", or frostily, or with forced politeness, or something like that.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I don't see problem here. Nazgul in invisible mode are in Spirit World, exactly like nazgul in LOTR and like Sam and Frodo with the Ring on.

I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. I was merely asking how I had to interpret the rule. Because I read it like the nazgul had bad eye sight when invisible but the game posts seemed to contradict it. And because much about the nazgul is AU I don't know when I can rely on canon in matters concerning them and when not. But the going-by-smell makes indeed perfect sense, although it was not always obvious from the posts. You'll have to forgive me but English is not my mothertongue.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. I was merely asking how I had to interpret the rule. Because I read it like the nazgul had bad eye sight when invisible but the game posts seemed to contradict it. And because much about the nazgul is AU I don't know when I can rely on canon in matters concerning them and when not. But the going-by-smell makes indeed perfect sense, although it was not always obvious from the posts. You'll have to forgive me but English is not my mothertongue.

Oh, my, Earniel!
I never thought for a moment you were accusing me!
Did it seem as I was accusing YOU? or rebuking you, or something?
If so, I am very sorry. Didn't intend it a moment.

And, you know English is NOT my mother tongue either. Perhaps we both have a similar problem

Gordis

[Rían]

You multi-lingual people amaze me! I admire you very much

[The last sane person]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Hey, Sane, salum ashghi chetori!

(not that I'll understand your answer!)

Heheh, khoob hastam. Halleh shoma chetoreh?

Hooboy, time to rewrite the race post *is still angry for loosing it*. Hehehe, this is gonna be fun. English isn't my mother tongue either, so I struggle with it as best I can. (God Damn most confusing grammer, spelling, punctuation I've ever had to be bothered with)