Writing using Tengwar characters

[Rían]

I don't have HoME 7 so I can't tell you, but it sure sounds good

Oh, I just remembered Christopher has a few different characters than JRRT, so it must be one of his new characters. Is it for the "C"? I'll try to find Christopher's special characters and describe it for you. (and he changes his 'i' and 'e' vowel marks around, too - did you notice that?)

[cassiopeia]

Yes, it is for the 'C', if I guessed the word correctly. It looks like a backwards C. I did notice he changes his i and e around. I found I had to write out the whole word sometimes and then try to guess what it was. Like he had ets for its.

[Rían]

The CRT symbols that are new are a c-looking thing for 's', and a straight up-and-down line (like a long carrier for a vowel) for 'h'. What does the unknown character look like? Is it "unknown", then 'a' over 'l', then 'e' over 'n', then 'b', then 'e' over 'l'? (if that makes sense...)

As I think about it more, I bet it's the 'c'-looking symbol (standing for 's'), because there is no Tengwa for 'c', since it is pronounded either 's' or 'k'. But then it would translate "salenbel", though- hmmm.

[TinuvielChild]

During math class, I write random things in Tengwar instead of paying attention. Lately I've been writing out the Galadriel monologue from the beginning of the FotR movie...yeah. Much funness. Except when Mr. Deveney catches me... TC tired. Babbling.

Oh, thanks, RÃ*an, for correcting me on my p-b-t-d stems! Now my Tengwar looks right. Before it looked just weird and stilted. Now it's all purty. Actually, are the stems like that for the k-g series as well? Because that's how I've been writing them lately.


And 'shibby' is just my word for cool.

[cassiopeia]

The unknown character is actually more like a comma. The word is unknown symbol, a, l, i, m, b, i, l. Ooops I made a mistake, it's caleMbel. If Christopher interchanges i and e, then I suppose I am correct in Calembel. It took me a while to find a word like that in the book, because I havn't finished reading it yet.

[Rían]

Yes, #s 3, 4, 7 and 8 (ch, k, j, g) also have the bow resting on the line. I'm glad you like it better! I do, too. I thought that maybe you just liked doing them that way, but they always looked kind of like they were going to fall over to me

Sorry cass, I missed your post while I was typing, when you said it looks like a backwards 'C'. I see it now. Well, I'm stumped, I've never seen it before that I can remember. But CRT does make up his own sometimes, so that must be it.

I wonder what Calembel is? Is it in the appendix? Is it another name for Parth Galen? The only thing I can find that's even close is an entry in the Sil index, "elements in Quenya and Sindarin names", where "calen" or "galen" is the usual Sindarin word for 'green', and they list Parth Galen as an example. What is Calembel in the book?

[Rían]

Wait - just to be sure, it isn't #30, is it? the JRRT alternate for 's'? That actually looks like a backwards comma.

[cassiopeia]

It was Calen-bel, but Tolkien changed it to Calembel. I'm not up to that part of the book, but in the index it says Calenbel is the lawn beneath Amon Hen, so it is another name for Parth Galen. It also has Calembel as a town in Gondor, which doens't make sense from what I've interpreted. I'm pretty sure it's Calembel, from the defintion I just gave and from the fact my interpretation says it is beside the Anduin. Tolkien kept changing words around in his rough drafts, so its probably Calembel/Calenbel.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Wait - just to be sure, it isn't #30, is it? the JRRT alternate for 's'? That actually looks like a backwards comma.

Ooops missed your post! I thought it could be that, but Christopher tended to use number 29 for s. You could be right, except their is no mention of salembel in the index, but perhaps you are supposed to pronounce it like that - not like a k which I am used to (like Celeborn being pronounced as Keleborn).

[Rían]

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for looking that up! I bet CRT made up a special character that stood for "C", since there was no "C" in JRRT's English mode Tengwar. JRRT does make some non-phonetic concessions to English, like the final 'y' vowel symbol, even though the sound of final 'y' is a long 'e'. Also, the dot under a tengwa that indicates a silent final 'e'. (OMGOODNESS, don't let your sister see this post! She'll think I'm totally addicted I really do have a life outside of Tengwar, really )

I was thinking of running over to a bookstore tomorrow and treating myself to PoME, if they have it in paperback, so I'll take a peek at Treason of Is. while I'm there.

[Rían]

How funny! We keep missing each other's posts while we're typing! I just saw your last one, where you missed my last one!

Well, I better get off now anyway - gotta do some kitchen clean-up! Happy Tengwar-ing, everyone

(BTW, I had a terrible time changing over to Keleborn - when I first read the books years ago, I pronounced it "Seleborn". Didi you guys do that, too? Kind of like how people say "Seltic" instead of "Keltic" for "Celtic".)

[cassiopeia]

You really should read the history of the lord of the rings. It's interesting to see how Tolkien changed things during the writing of the LOTR. He kept changing Aragorns name to Trotter, Ingold, Elfstone. Plus he was considering Frodo having a wart on his chin (made me laugh) and Aragorn killing Boromir (I actually cried out no! when I read that).

I sometimes say Sellaborn and the other day I said Sore-ron for Sauron - very naughty of me. Sorry to be OT.

[Rían]

I would LOVE to read it! I'm working on getting all the books, but it's rather pricey, so I have to go slowly. I'm pretty sure I'll get PoME next, that one sounds good, then maybe WoTJ - what do you recommend? (I have UT, BoLT 2, MR now)

OK, here's something for you guys to translate - if you post a translation, please "spoiler" it out so others can work on it, too. Note for newer Tengwar writers - I have 3 s-curls in this note, and they're all off of Tengwa #25 (r). (BTW, I always use #25 for my r's, because I like the different look of it, as opposed to #21 for r). So it just means add an 's' after the tengwa. S-curls are lots of fun, and you can get really individual with them.

I also have some doubling marks, like in the first word. It just means to double the consonant.

Also, I've pretty much switched my s's from 30 to 29. I like how it looks better.

Good luck! Let me know what you come up with

[cassiopeia]

Rian here it goes (I will try to do it without my cheat sheet!):

Hello new tengwar writers, I am very glad to meet you. I hope some of you have scanners so we can see your writing. Well have a nice day. Elvishly yours, Rian.

I did need some quick checks of my cheat sheet to translate. To answer you: unfortunately I don't have one. I hope this is right!

[TinuvielChild]

As usual, I'm one of the first ones to translate...

Hello new Tengwar writers! I am very glad to meet you. I hope some of you have scanners so we can see your writing. Well, have a nice day! Elvishly yours, RÃ*an

[Rían]

Cass and TC - you both get A+++++++

I sure wish more people had scanners I love seeing different "handwriting". Oh well - are there scanners at libraries?

[Celebrian]

I have a scanner, but it isn't hooked up yet. As soon as it is I will see if I can figure out how to use it right. I don't think libraries have scanners, but i never looked.
I have got my sister (her user name is Telperion) writing Tengwar now. She used to bug me about it but then she asked me where I got my information! I think she finally got fed up because I was writing her notes she couldn't understand, and she has always wanted to learn some kind of elvish, but the spoken kind looks really hard.

[TinuvielChild]

Not sure if this will work...written in a dry erase marker and the paint program on Windows.

[TinuvielChild]

Oh, and downsizing it to a size that fits really, really, really screwed up the quality, so I don't know if you can make head or tail of it. Do your best, as usual.

[Rían]

Yes, the downsizing really messes it up, unfortunately. There's only one word that I really can't read, though, part of it got blanked out or something. Here's what I got:

Tinuviel child is bored. Hey Rian, am I getting the t's, d's, p's and b's right? I didn't have my other pens handi, so I (cant' make out) a dri erase marker, it looks weird.

Yes, that's the way JRRT does his! I think it looks better that way, do you? Also, I saw you used the "preceded by nasal of same column" tilde. I can't make up my mind about that, it usually makes the lowest letter go below the line because I forget to start my vowel mark higher. It is kinda cool, though. Thanks for posting! It's fun to read someone else's Tengwar