Discussion Thread Number 5 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

If you can make it plausible that the troops would listen to her I'd be glad to have her do that. She would also probably pass the message on to Oreturion (where did Sun-Star dissapear to? And can we use that character in the mean time?).

As for where she'd join the fray... she'd join it at any point where it looked like she was needed but most likely she'd go to help defend the lower part of town where all the civilians are.

[The last sane person]

That is probably also where Shah and his troops returning would have to battle their way in through. Probably all the other gates and entrances would be shut. They might have to do some boat hopping to get back into Tharbad. Either that or get killed.

I can make it pausible, the guards know you, you fix their armor and you have a good rep with them, or so i think. And if you show them the dispatches with Shah's seal, and Marty coming ass over teakettle with the same message, I think it'll jine.

Hmm...considering killing off either Shah or Marty. Not sure, it might help me later on down the road.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

Yes, but I wish she had done so much earlier, when the attack idea was first mentioned. It could have saved us a good two pages of arguing because we would have been thinking from the same starting point.

How many times have I repeated that the garrison outnumbered the pirates? How many times I said that the destruction of Tharbad was not the object?

Even when there was the first mention of the possible attack - some months ago - it was made clear that the idea is to demonstrate to Val that Gondor maritime defences are inadequate.

And how am I to know what info you lack? If you wanted some info, the best idea is to ASK for it, if you can't look it over yourselves.

Now I do have an idea that you NEED info on the area around Tharbad. So I posted it.

As for where the soldiers are housed, it is up to you to decide. I can put barracks on the map where you choose.
The fire warning and fire brigade certainly exist. Where? Also up to you.

As for what areas of the city will be attacked, I wouldn't haver worried about poor people at the docks - they have nothing valuable. Setting fires is not the main objective either. Pirates want plunder. The rich houses will be pillaged.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

I'll have er...the lot of them run into eachother together. Cause I will need Marty, Ray, Mahta and Shah all together.

Another reason to have them all meet - then my elves should be OKed to fight with the good guys, on Ray's word (because of Alagos in Imladris), don't you think?

I'm going to throw out another option - the pirates could attack a slightly smaller town right "next" to Tharbad - NOT Tharbad - and seeing the fire from that attack could interrupt the bonfire (Gondolin style), and/or scouts coming in could interrupt the bonfire. That would eliminate the problems with destruction of Tharbad (there certainly would be SOME, after all) and still make the Chancellor's point ("Town "A" first, Tharbad next! What shall we do, your Majesty?"), and still give a fight scene for those who want it.

Just a thought - feel free to veto it

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I'm going to throw out another option - the pirates could attack a slightly smaller town right "next" to Tharbad - NOT Tharbad - and seeing the fire from that attack could interrupt the bonfire (Gondolin style), and/or scouts coming in could interrupt the bonfire. That would eliminate the problems with destruction of Tharbad (there certainly would be SOME, after all) and still make the Chancellor's point ("Town "A" first, Tharbad next! What shall we do, your Majesty?"), and still give a fight scene for those who want it.

Just a thought - feel free to veto it

But that will exclude plenty of characters from the fighting. All girls for sure.
And why not have SOME destruction in Tharbad?

And the pirates were sent to Tharbad - it is rich, not like some village. The jeweller's street! Umm...Governor's palace... University...

By the way, the pirates have no idea of the nazgul in Tharbad. So, if they meet Aiwendis, or Viv they are bound to attack and try to take them as slaves as any ordinary comely maid.

[Rían]

fine with me to keep it in Tharbad, except my major concern is that it would pull the King from his classes and maybe even from the city. But I suppose we could define the fight as just under that importance level, whatever that is.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

By the way, the pirates have no idea of the nazgul in Tharbad. So, if they meet Aiwendis, or Viv they are bound to attack and try to take them as slaves as any ordinary comely maid.

A-HA! Viv would LOOOOVE to see them try! If she gets mad, she'll wipe out half of them herself, in one furious swirl of momentary homicidal rage. She may be small, but she's got effective rage tendencies comparable to ML himself, remember? I still have yet to pull that rabbit out of its hat, maybe with this pirate attack she'll finally get to use it. Remember how pissed she got at Khamul that one time in "Fellowship?" She briefly rendered him thing-less!

I wish I were more caught up right now in the story; I am so friggin' far behind.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Hey - go easy on me - this high temperature is making me say crazy things.

Hmmm, you're excused. For now.

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

Lotesse, thanks for you liking my poor Lilly. No one else does, it seems (cry-cry).

Of course we do, you silly goose. Without Lilly's antiques this game would be a lot less interesting.

Originally Posted by Gordis

But that will exclude plenty of characters from the fighting. All girls for sure.

Aren't most girls already excluded from the fight? Regardless of the possibility that most of our female characters possess enough fighting skills to depopulate a small town, we are not in Rohan and shieldmaidens are in short supply. Apart from Mahtaliel, it would not be expected that Aiwendis, or Lotesse (except by Ray, since he saw that side of her already) or even Eärniel would know how to fight in a siege. Now that would certainly get tongues wagging. Just something to consider.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

A-HA! Viv would LOOOOVE to see them try! If she gets mad, she'll wipe out half of them herself, in one furious swirl of momentary homicidal rage. She may be small, but she's got effective rage tendencies comparable to ML himself, remember? I still have yet to pull that rabbit out of its hat, maybe with this pirate attack she'll finally get to use it. Remember how pissed she got at Khamul that one time in "Fellowship?" She briefly rendered him thing-less!

I have no doubt Viv can hold her own against any poor pirate. But what is the reason for getting mad and destroing our allies? They are only doing their job.
If Aiwendis is attacked, she will simply evade the attackers without harming them. Don't forget, we can turn invisible, clothes and all...

I am glad you posted after such a long time, Lotesse. Poor innocent Tolvadok, caught in such a position... Tol will be hard put to it to explain all that has happened.

[Lotesse]

That's RIGHT, they're our allies! Ah, well. For a second, though, she'll be mad. I guess it's gonna have to be Viv going invisible. Oh, the moral dilemma for her! I mean, Ray and all. I've been dreading the moment where I have to make Viv deal with her inner turmoil about falling in love with a mortal good-guy while being so loyally a Nazgul. This oughta be intersting... To say the least.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Without Lilly's antiques this game would be a lot less interesting.

That's SO cute! Earniel, you're killin' me! It's "antics" - for a minute there, Viv was ALL interested - Lilly has antiques? Viv wants some! I love the rare but unique Earnielisms we get every once in a while.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Aren't most girls already excluded from the fight? Regardless of the possibility that most of our female characters possess enough fighting skills to depopulate a small town, we are not in Rohan and shieldmaidens are in short supply. Apart from Mahtaliel, it would not be expected that Aiwendis, or Lotesse (except by Ray, since he saw that side of her already) or even Eärniel would know how to fight in a siege. Now that would certainly get tongues wagging. Just something to consider.

I meant not hacking people with swords, but just being there during the fight - running around and screaming in fright also counts.
And I don't believe there will be a siege, just fighting in the streets. If it is in another town, then all female characters are excluded, unless they are sitting home and angsting. .

[Rían]

Our ESL (or ETL or EFL) speakers continually amaze me. I'm constantly forgetting that English isn't their mother-tongue, because they all speak it so well. Kudos to our ENFLs!!!


ESL - "English as a Second Language" - a common term in education circles in the USA
ETL, EFL - my coined terms - English as a third/fourth language
ENFLs - my coined term to cover all of the above - English as Not a First Language

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Actually the education peoples just recently changed it to ELL: English Language Learners, in order to make it more inclusive. But I agree, it's amazing how well you all speak it.

[Rían]

oh, that term makes more sense, because for people like our beloved sea-elf, I think it's a THIRD language!

OK, I've written a Tyaron-recovering-in-bed post that can be posted as soon as we get Ray and Marty and Shah and Mahta meeting Alagos bringing in the wounded Tyaron. (read: I won't hold anyone up with this post! It's already written! )

[Serenoli]

Originally Posted by CS

Serenoli, I hope my Muse, a bit frivolous today, hasn't carried me too far?

Well, between you and Lotesse (I love the smashing glass bit... so dramatic and heroic! ), you have put Tolvadok in a very nasty position... and as Gor says, he is so very innocent after all. Oh, he hates Lily and Buz more than ever before... and I am hard-put to think of how to explain it all now... uff! How will he ever gain control of Orrodel now??

methinks, CS should do the next post because obviously with her tears will come some nasty accusation or other. If Tolvadok has to speak in your post, he will at first stammer helplessly, then begin blubbering in anger, and eventually... well, I don't know what he'll do then, but if you reach eventually, then I shall have to do a post to wrap it up.

It seems I have forgot to praise LMM's latest sobering up post, but I loved it, and it was clearly the best Mahta and Shah post.

Edit: On second thoughts, CS & Lotesse, I posted first. Now Lily has to explain some!

[Lotesse]

Ciao, Serenoli! I like it a lot! I like how exasperated Tolvadok is getting, and I love how he says "can't you tell she's faking it" and all that. Now we await Crazy Squirrel's Lilly retort. This is a neat little scene!

Now I gotta go to bed, got a long day ahead of me tomorrow.

[Valandil]

I've been thinking some more about the impending attack, and here's what I've come up with.

First of all, placing things in the historical setting:
1. We don't have any evidence that Umbar would have had any kind of naval forces at this time. Please don't confuse the current Umbar with that at the end of the Third Age - for there was an infusion of naval power into Umbar following Gondor's Kin-strife, when Castamir's descendants led their followers to Umbar after Eldacar returned to re-claim Gondor's crown (all this in the mid 1400's). Castamir's passion had been for fleets, so we can surmise that this resulted in most of Gondor's fleets - likely unassailable since the times of the Ship Kings - being transferred to Umbar at this time. However - that's still a long way off. Of course - they might have had some sea power, so we could make that supposition.
2. Even if Umbar did have some sea forces, the victory of the Alliance of Elves and Men over Sauron and his forces is within living memory. I don't think too many would be eager to take on Sauron's over-throwers at this point (and we don't know for sure which side Umbar fell on back then). I would think they would be VERY hesitant to launch any kind of risky attack like this.
3. I'm not sure how much influence the Nazgul would or could realistically wield at this point - especially from a distance. I'm not convinced they could persuade men to place themselves at risk like this.
4. If there was a sea-power among the kingdoms of Men at this time, it was most likely Gondor, even though we're well before the first of the Ship Kings. For this fleet to sail toward Tharbad, they would have had to go right past Gondor. Another great risk - and I doubt Gondor would have allowed it.

All those things aside - I am willing to say 'yes' about the ships, but now there are some personal / character considerations:
1. Valandil is King of what is still a rather strong kingdom. Though weakened by losses from the Great War, Arnor still has many advantages, which potential foes do not share. One of those is a unique intelligence system. Another would be well-armed, well-disciplined armies. The way I see it, for Valandil to allow Tharbad to be struck by surprise would be a sign of royal failure. He certainly has the means to avoid it, and I do not think he should be caught by surprise in this. He would want to protect his lands and his people, and I think he should be given that right in this game.
2. Valandil will not be easily manipulated. He will not be a puppet pulled by any string a Nazgul player character wishes to pull.

So - conclusion: bring on the fleet, but I aim to absolutely crush it (I owe it to them for what they did to one of my villages) - and before it can do Tharbad any harm. By attacking my kingdom - they have sailed into the jaws of the lion!

Leave the means and methods to me - but I will put in place the mechanisms to allow me to discover when it will arrive. I will start that with the placeholder post I made. I'm sorry, but I may not be able to fill it for a few days. I've been too sick to work up good posts lately, and am recovering a little just in time for a long weekend get-away my wife and I planned several weeks ago. So probably the earliest I can fill it is next Tuesday night.

I suggest we not have too many of these major military actions. If various Nazgul characters start calling in all their forces, and I have to respond by calling in more of Arnor's forces... that would just change the game so much. I think we've had a good time with the character-interaction. Do we want the game to shift away from that and toward the movements of armies?

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Sounds shiny.

I was trying to play out the potential fight scene in my head just now... I think that last Frankenstein film may have been one too many...

[Rían]

I must say I agree with most if not all of Val's points - I just can't see that many ships and the destruction of a town staying under the radar ... is there a way we can still get a fight in for those that want it?