The Singers Thread

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Tessar

It's difficult to say whether or not the High C and above were considered standard for singers to perform.

It's possible that it was 'understood' that a singer would interpolate extra high notes as a part of their artistry, or it's also possible that many singers did not have the technique... or maybe nutrition to support the extra top notes. I know that sounds like an odd thing to say, but it's quite possible that without a proper, healthy diet many singers would have had a smaller vocal range. I know during my freshman year when I wasn't eating enough my vocal range diminished and I was less able to control my voice.

I also imagine less sanitary living conditions would've left many people prone to more frequent illness, and even with good technique you can't always utilize your highest notes while sick. So possibly the lower notes were more of a safety measure?

Or potentially it was just not considered fashionable to sing that high. Maybe they just thought it was screaming .

Everything I've written is pure conjecture, and I have no idea if I'm even on the right track .

I've also noted that it's not uncommon for mezzos to take baroque music written for soprano; there was just a recording of Alcina where Joyce DiDonato, apparently, sings the title role, Magdalena Kozena sang Cleopatra in a Cesare recording, and I understand that Sarah Connolly has sung Nero and Agrippina. Which probably means that they don't go as high as many later soprano roles, eh? I mean, sometimes a mezzo like Bartoli will take a soprano role in later music, but it seems much more common in baroque music.

[Voronwen]

Regarding written high C's in baroque music, it is rare. Yet Tessar raised a good point about singers interpolating higher notes. The common performance practice today regarding baroque music is that interpolated notes should not be more than a major third above the highest written note. I do interpolate a high D into one of my Handel arias, but the highest written note is well within that guideline.

As for mezzos taking on soprano roles from the baroque repertoire - many of them transpose them down, and/or use "baroque pitch" which is nearly a half step below the pitch as we would sing it today. So a famous mezzo making a recording with a 'baroque orchestra' that is tuned to baroque pitch would find it relatively easy to meet the demands of the tessitura of the piece if their technique is up to it. Add on top of this that the lowering of even a half step makes a big difference in tessitura and demands because the piece will then fall differently around the singer's register breaks. This all converges to make the phenomenon of mezzos singing baroque soprano roles possible.

Bear in mind also that the classification we know today as "mezzo-soprano" didn't even exist in period. It's a relatively recent (mid-19th c., if i remember correctly) way to classify a female singing voice. Before that, a soprano was a soprano, and music was often written with a specific singer in mind, tailor-made for her unique voice and abilities.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yeah, back then, they just had soprano, contralto, tenor and bass, right? I've heard it said of song singers of the period (such as Caffarelli and Durastanti, at least her later music) that they would today be called mezzo-sopranos, though they were considered sopranos in their time.

[Voronwen]

Yes. Also they had the Castrati, a whole different category unto itself. They sang in a soprano range, but by today's standards they would be considered mezzos. Many of the baroque roles mezzos sing as "pants roles" today (ie. Xerxes, Rinaldo) would have been sung in period by such a one. "Soprano" therefore referred to the female roles, more often than not.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

My understanding is that the castrati came in both soprano and alto, just like women; e.g. Handel's and Monteverdi's Neros were both soprano castrati, whereas Giulio Cesare and Rinaldo were alto castrati, and so on?

[Voronwen]

I'm not certain I haven't heard of it, but it makes sense.

[Tessar]

Opening night went pretty well!

I forgot some of my choreography for some reason! >.< That really irritated me. I'll just review the crap out of it today and tomorrow morning before the next show so that it doesn't happen again.

I got lots of complements for my voice, which was really nice .

[Voronwen]

I'm so glad it's going well!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Opening night went pretty well!

I forgot some of my choreography for some reason! >.< That really irritated me. I'll just review the crap out of it today and tomorrow morning before the next show so that it doesn't happen again.

I got lots of complements for my voice, which was really nice .

At the same time, be careful with the reviewing; too much review can make you blank completely! Like when you say and hear a word so often, it ceases to mean anything.

[Tessar]

I had a totally weird moment on stage tonight. I was supposed to sing the line, "On your allegiance we've a stronger claim."

I either totally blanked out, or it was like... I thought I was singing? I heard the words in my head, but then I suddenly realized I wasn't actually singing them. O_o I jumped in on 'we've a stronger claim,' which luckily works out perfectly so only someone who knows the music would realize I dropped a few words, but it was WEIRD!!! I could've sworn I was singing... like, I heard the words I was supposed to say in my head, so it's not like I forgot I was supposed to sing or forgot my line. I thought I was singing, but I wasn't. Weirdness!

[Voronwen]

Do you deal with anxiety while performing at all? That might explain it...

[Tessar]

Oh no, it was not an anxiety thing at all. Just a weird little moment... I thought I was singing, but... apparently I wasn't. O_o Probably wont ever happen again. I must've let my concentration slip or -something-. I don't even know how else to describe it except that I really heard myself singing in my head, and it took me a second to realize that the rest of me wasn't following through .


Oh btw, update on my friend's ridiculous high range. She can now lip bubble up to an E7, and she's vocalizing something like a D or C#7. It's not even one of those, 'oh my God that's so annoyingly high' sounds, I swear it sounds like a bird trilling when she's up there. So she's got to be pushing a 4 octave range at this point, since I think she's got at least a G below middle C.

It's so weird... Most people who can do that kind of thing are just high note machines and the rest of their voice is lacking, but (in my opinion) my friend has a beautiful, beautiful voice in addition to the ridiculous high notes.


I have a lot of catchup work to do. I feel totally out of touch with things since I haven't really been to class since I did my theory class Wednesday morning. Does it sound weird to say that I'm anxious about going back to class tomorrow? Seriously anxious. It feels like the first day of the semester always does, for some reason.

Anyways... tomorrow maybe I can start working on my competition music again. *sigh* So much catchup work to do. I also need to get ready for the meeting for the auditions for next semester's opera... apparently we're having an informal meeting on the 6th to discuss the auditions, which will be the 12th.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I must've let my concentration slip or -something-.

That's possible, or maybe it's just the opposite and you've been 'in your head' too much? I have no way of knowing, just throwing things out there in hopes that they might help you.

Oh btw, update on my friend's ridiculous high range. She can now lip bubble up to an E7, and she's vocalizing something like a D or C#7. It's not even one of those, 'oh my God that's so annoyingly high' sounds, I swear it sounds like a bird trilling when she's up there. So she's got to be pushing a 4 octave range at this point, since I think she's got at least a G below middle C.

I'm jealous!!! I've always wanted to be able to shock people that way. Oh well. There are many different kinds of 'birds'. Some just have a peaceful song. All voice types are important and beautiful **telling self that eight million times until she believes it**

It feels like the first day of the semester always does, for some reason.

Perhaps because you've been so focused on the show. I know how that feels, somewhat.

Anyways... tomorrow maybe I can start working on my competition music again. *sigh* So much catchup work to do. I also need to get ready for the meeting for the auditions for next semester's opera... apparently we're having an informal meeting on the 6th to discuss the auditions, which will be the 12th.

I am in awe that you even have the guts to go in for competitions. I've never done them.

What have they chosen as next semester's opera?

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

I am in awe that you even have the guts to go in for competitions. I've never done them.

Well, it's not a 'real' competition where I think I'm going to actually win something. It's NATS, which will cover the entire Texoma region... so Texas, New Mexico, and parts of Oklahoma. The competition is pretty fierce to make it to finals, and even simi-finals might still be beyond me. We'll see . Gonna give it my best shot.

What have they chosen as next semester's opera?

It's something that one of our theory teachers/local composers wrote. It's a comic opera, and from what I've seen so far it's -very- funny . There are four baritone roles, three of which I think would fit my voice pretty well. Today is the informal meeting to discuss the auditions, so we'll see what happens!

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

It's NATS

Ah, NATS Ok. Very cool!

What will you be singing?

There are four baritone roles, three of which I think would fit my voice pretty well. Today is the informal meeting to discuss the auditions, so we'll see what happens!

I think i remember you mentioning something before about this. With that many baritone roles you're bound to get one!

[Tessar]

I'll be singing In Der Fremde, by Shumann, Now Sleeps The Crimson Petal, by Roger Quilter, and probably Honor and Arms for my aria... although I might beg for the catalogue aria. I just feel like Honor and Arms might not be that great of a selection, but she'll probably want me to do it.

If you're not familiar with the Quilter piece, I'd check out this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0vkU6Epk6M I'm not usually a big Ian Bostridge fan, but I think he does a beautiful job here.


I didn't have a lesson today because my poor teacher is sick . I hope she gets better soon... she's had a fever for four days. O_o I suggested she go see the doctor, but since she's new in town I think she's in one of those, "I don't have a doctor here and I don't really know where the walkin clinics are," modes where she doesn't really want to go.

One interesting thing, though. She told me to start doing vocal sirens. You know, where you start at the lowest comfortable, well placed, note in your range and you slide up to the highest comfortable note of your range on a single vowel. Right now I'm doing them up to about a G4 or so, although I've only done them a few times. I keep running across people who swear by them, and supposedly they were actually a prized exercise during the 'bel canto' period because they unify the registers and help with placement. After this weekend (once Pirates is over) I'm going to start doing them every day .

One thing I am totally loving is using the really nasal, forward placed, low palate 'ee' to get my placement set and then putting other vowels or the regular words into the same place as the 'ee'. It's not really 'nasal' I guess... it's not 'in' the nose, but it's just incredibly, incredibly 'forward' placed. It lets me maintain that 'tiny' singing sensation while getting my voice placed as far forward as it has ever been. If I can keep my palate up while doing both of those other things, I actually make some very beautiful sounds . So (as I've said before) now it's a waiting and practicing game to see how long it takes me to make that a consistent part of my singing.

When I do it correctly I can just sing and sing without any strain for long periods of time, but of course I can't do it consistently so my voice is still flipping back and forth and that's when I start to run into trouble and get vocally tired. I just need tiiiime. And to get rid of these freaking allergies! GAH! Also to -not- catch swine flu, although I may. *sigh* Just about everyone in the voice department has had it except for a handful of us, now.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

the catalogue aria

I just love that scene! Can i pleeeease be Donna Elvira??

One interesting thing, though. She told me to start doing vocal sirens. You know, where you start at the lowest comfortable, well placed, note in your range and you slide up to the highest comfortable note of your range on a single vowel. Right now I'm doing them up to about a G4 or so, although I've only done them a few times. I keep running across people who swear by them, and supposedly they were actually a prized exercise during the 'bel canto' period because they unify the registers and help with placement. After this weekend (once Pirates is over) I'm going to start doing them every day .

Interesting! Especially about the bel canto period. I just may start doing these again. Way back when, they really helped me get my whole range opened up without pressure or strain. But the thing i swear by is lip trills. Those have been infintely good for me, in a more delicate way than sirens have, if that makes any sense.

Glad the "ee" thing is working for you!

GAH! Also to -not- catch swine flu, although I may. *sigh* Just about everyone in the voice department has had it except for a handful of us, now.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

I just love that scene! Can i pleeeease be Donna Elvira??

But of course!

But the thing i swear by is lip trills. Those have been infintely good for me, in a more delicate way than sirens have, if that makes any sense.

I've been doing lip trills for years, and they're an enormous asset to me as a vocal warmup but they don't seem to do much for my technique. Interestingly, because they take some of the pressure off of the cords by using the lips as a 'second' wind resistor that decreases the amount of pressure required to vibrate the cords (at least that's what I've been told they do), I can lip bubble up to a tenor C and probably even higher... but it's accomplished by letting my larynx pop up very high. It's not 'effortful', but I'm sure it's not healthy . It sure surprised my voice teacher, though .

[Voronwen]

Hmm... this is interesting to me, about getting extremely high notes during lip trills. I was taught that they were actually a valid way to train flexibility into your range, but now i wonder. There are times when i can hit that F# or G6 with lip trills on days when i could never actually sing them (due to allergies, etc). Now i'm wondering about them as a 'range exercise'. But what they've done for me is to really get the air moving, and they are good for that.

I've been dusting off my oratorio rep lately as this is likely what will yield the highest possibility for opportunities with the upcoming holiday season. Some of the things that fit my voice like a glove fall into this category. It's great to go back to them.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

but what they've done for me is to really get the air moving, and they are good for that.

Definitely! I love them for that. Especially when I have to sing first thing in the morning and I just don't feel like singing a note, I do lip bubbles first and that helps me start singing .

I've been dusting off my oratorio rep lately as this is likely what will yield the highest possibility for opportunities with the upcoming holiday season. Some of the things that fit my voice like a glove fall into this category. It's great to go back to them.

Fun!! What stuff specifically? Messiah?



I'm so happy with the new vocal technique stuff but it's frustrating to not be able to click it in automatically every time I sing. Grr.