04-09-2003, 11:39 PM | #321 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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1. Stupidity - The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
2. Pretentiousness - Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn't applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone's made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not. 3. Solipsism - Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won't. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of "Do unto others as they do unto you." It's work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point. 4. Self-deceit - It's in the "Nine Satanic Statements" but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it's fun, and with awareness. But then, it's not self-deceit! 5. Herd Conformity - That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's all right to conform to a person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many. 6. Lack of Perspective - Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints - know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world. 7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies - Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it's something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society. 8. Counterproductive Pride - That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you've painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it. 9. Lack of Aesthetics - This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It's not what's supposed to be pleasing - it's what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one's own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied. And that's this part. If I have time, I'll try to come back and comment on it, but right now I'm a bit burnt out.
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04-10-2003, 04:09 AM | #322 | ||
The Dude
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oh my god how much did you post well ill try to reply to all the points you raised but it'll probly take me a bit and im not responding from a satanist pov just my own...
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i guess i dont have your stamina or ability to stick with something but ill post some more tommorrer or tonight
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04-10-2003, 04:27 AM | #323 |
the Shrike
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04-10-2003, 04:45 AM | #324 |
The Dude
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eh?
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04-10-2003, 02:15 PM | #325 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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04-10-2003, 04:11 PM | #326 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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That's why a less-intelligent person who has tried really, really hard to do their best to learn with limited intelligence, and has chosen to try very hard to apply that knowledge, can be MUCH more highly praised than an intelligence person who sits on their duff all day and doesn't give a rip for anyone besides themselves.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-10-2003, 04:28 PM | #327 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Yes, just like the Widow's Mite.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-10-2003, 11:42 PM | #328 | |
The Dude
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i see where your coming from Rian but i still intelligence as a virtue. i just looked in the dictionary and this was intelligence.
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04-10-2003, 11:45 PM | #329 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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The "understand" and "control" parts sound more like Rian's wisdom than intelligence to me. And wisdom is definitely something the Bible highly praises.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-10-2003, 11:50 PM | #330 |
The Dude
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yes thats what im trying to say its all in your definition. i see them as promoting Rian's wisdom definition over her intelligence one...
as far as i am getting your defintion of intelligence Rian, you are saying that you are born with intelligence not something you can aquire??? because if thats what your saying the Church of Satan is not about being catagorised through uncontrolable circumstances but through intelligence which everyone can control.
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04-11-2003, 12:25 AM | #331 |
the Shrike
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Sorry, but I tend to agree with rian on this one.
Intelligence is the basic building block - this is what we use to adapt to the environment, and manipulate it to our advantage; then you get knowledge which builds upon intelligence, and THEN you get wisdom. Wisdom would be, I guess, the virtue.
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04-11-2003, 12:30 AM | #332 |
The Dude
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no need to apologise ill just fight it alone
yes but even by your definition of Intelligence wouldnt you class it as a good virtue to have and something to acknowledge?
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04-11-2003, 12:48 AM | #333 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Well, the way that I, personally, think of intelligence is I guess the innate capacity of your brain that you are BORN with. I guess it boils down to I think different people just have different amounts of 'smarts'. Now, you can go to school and apply whatever brain power you have and LEARN more, but I would think that increases your KNOWLEDGE, not your INTELLIGENCE.
Maybe intelligence is like the horsepower rating on an engine - some people might be issued a 454, while others might be issued a 350 (I got these numbers from my husband - I had no clue about engine sizes ). Now if the 454 owner and the 350 owner apply the same amount of effort (gasoline? driving?) then the 454 owner will go farther, faster (altho he put in the same effort as the 350 owner). But if the 454 owner dawdles around, doesn't invest in gasoline, takes 5 hour breaks, etc., then even tho the 350 owner has a less capable machine, he will get farther. (this may be a lousy analogy because I don't know a lot about cars, but I hope you get the general idea.) So the car owners can't help what car they were issued, but they CAN help what they DO with the car they were issued! But I could be completely wrong...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-11-2003, 12:57 AM | #334 |
The Dude
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yeah i also agree with you in the fact that some people are born with a certain amount of smarts to some degree. i wouldnt call that intelligence because that would by your definition make it impossible to gain intelligence and i think you can.
i dont see true knowledge as what you learn at school but more the philosophical side of things, and sure i think there is a restriction to what you can and cant get your head around but i dont think you are necassarily born with that.
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04-11-2003, 01:12 AM | #335 |
the Shrike
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No, Rian, I do believe you are right. Intelligence is innate: it is something you are born with, and it measures your natural capacity to work within the physical environment. You cannot improve your intelligence: this is fixed, because it is an innate ability. Whether it is a virtue or not, is another matter. Knowledge is what you build upon. This is flexible, and can be considered a virtue of sorts, since it acts to strengthen your natural abilities. Wisdom is the next step up.
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04-11-2003, 01:14 AM | #336 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Millane - We probably are thinking the same ideas, but using different words to express it.
some other quick defs: virtue - general moral excellence moral - relating to, dealing with, or capable of making the distinction between, right and wrong in conduct intelligence - the ability to learn or understand from experience; ability to acquire and retain knowledge; mental ability. So I would say intelligence is NOT a virtue. I also disagree with you - I DON"T think you can gain intelligence. (If you study, you tend to think better overall, but I think you don't actually gain brain cells, you just get more of them working). I think you could lose intelligence thru things like an injury to the brain. On the other hand, how you APPLY your intelligence can be virtuous or not virtuous (i.e., are you using your intelligence to help others? are you diligent to use your intelligence for good purposes? Helping others and being diligent are virtues.) But that's just MHO
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-11-2003 at 01:15 AM. |
04-11-2003, 01:17 AM | #337 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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BoP - I keep missing your posts! You keep posting while I"m typing. I keep getting phone calls and can't finish a post off!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-11-2003, 01:18 AM | #338 |
the Shrike
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Knowledge - Main Entry: knowl·edge
Pronunciation: 'nä-lij Function: noun Etymology: Middle English knowlege, from knowlechen to acknowledge, irregular from knowen Date: 14th century 1 obsolete : COGNIZANCE 2 a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique b (1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something (2) : the range of one's information or understanding <answered to the best of my knowledge> c : the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning : COGNITION d : the fact or condition of having information or of being learned <a man of unusual knowledge> 3 archaic : SEXUAL INTERCOURSE 4 a : the sum of what is known : the body of truth, information, and principles acquired by mankind b archaic : a branch of learning synonyms KNOWLEDGE, LEARNING, ERUDITION, SCHOLARSHIP mean what is or can be known by an individual or by mankind. KNOWLEDGE applies to facts or ideas acquired by study, investigation, observation, or experience
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04-11-2003, 01:19 AM | #339 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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What do you think wisdom is, BoP? (and others)
ps = I like your def of intelligence - "it measures your natural capacity to work within the physical environment. "
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-11-2003, 01:23 AM | #340 | |
the Shrike
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Thanks.
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Wisdom. Um. I guess I would consider it to be an accumulation of knowledge; philisophically and scientifically. Someone who has expanded their knowledge beyond necessity?
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