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#321 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Re: Re: PJ's Roman Circus?
Quote:
I didn't know Jackson before LoTR either but in my case, that proves little since I hardly know anybody. ![]()
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#322 |
Enting
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 81
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I think PJ was looking for a challenge too. People have selective memories here if they think he did this only for money and fame. PJ took a professional and financial risk to bring this book to the screen. Last year leading up to the release of FOtR there was no guarantee of success, and the pundits were that failure would sink the studio.
I appreciate the risk that he took, the care he took to craft a movie from difficult material, and the obstacles he overcame along the way. My feeling is that PJ can withstand the criticism leveled at him by armchair critics. People may come and go with individual opinion, but the film will remain as a testament to PJ's skills as a filmmaker. His film has already been mentioned as one of the best of the year . . I've been around probably as long as the Ents . . it is not easy to win the respect of your peers . . and, when you see nominations . . and best of the bunch lists for director, cinematography, screen adaptation, costuming, sound, special effects, performances, and yes . . film . . these nominations are not just cropping up because of 'popularity'. Darn, who am I kidding . . you're all right . . I just really liked the movie because Legolas is HOT. ![]() |
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#323 |
Enting
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 90
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As my sister put it the movies were a labor of love. For the sets at least you have to have an appreciation for the books if you put a lot of detail into the sets as he did. Besides I've seen the animated version of LoTR and if you though that PJ's was bad you'd absoulutly hate the animated.
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#324 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: sweden
Posts: 13
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IT IS SOOO GOOD!
I can´t describe the feeling to you when I saw the premier of The two towers here in sweden where I live!
First of all I couldnt understand that I was actually there again. After a one year I was there again!!!! It was the moment we´ve all been waiting for. I nearly cried when the movie started. I was so touch!!! I think that Peter Jackson did a great job on this move two, like the first........BUT he did some things wrong...too different fron the book... but it took my heart anyway!
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#325 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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![]() Quote:
And what exactly is the definition of an armchair critic? When anyone goes to a movie - don't they determine whether they like it or not? Is there some "critic school" that a person needs to go to so THEY can determine whether they like a film or not? I quess I better go get my PHD in film criticism so I can be told what makes a good film versus a bad one. Sorry - but I feel that Jackson's "interpretation" leaves a lot to be desired. And I don't need to go to a class or major in film to tell me why should like it. And Kalimac - people unfamiliar with the Lord of the Rings fans would question whether the film would be a success. But as long as the film kept certain points in and was well done the fans would eat it up. Which is exactly what happened. Jackson was familar with the fans - but I still don't think that he made the film because it was Lord of the Rings. He made it because he wanted to do a fantasy film - and by producing one based on Lord of the Rings - he was able to ride on the coattails of Tolkien and the books. After FotR came out - people were praising Jackson for just making the film and practically kissing his feet. Now people have been leveling a more rounded critism of the film and not just just excusing things he did.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-31-2002 at 04:05 PM. |
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#326 |
Enting
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 56
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Oscars
Jersey's right. There's an immense amount of politicing that goes on. It really is just a popularity contest.
What's more is that I've known several people who are members of the Academy and I couldn't personally care less what they thought of a movie (sons and daughters of 3rd string movie actors, etc.). And they're the ones voting and choosing here. What does their opinion mean to me? Many of the films that end up getting nominated (and winning) weren't even seen by most members in the theater, but rather on video (DVD now!) sent out to Academy members by the studios. It is all a concerted effort to win these prizes. Huge and expensive advertisements are taken out in Hollywood periodicals encouraging members to vote for this or that. IMO, if you want to figure out how good a film actually is, watch it, and think about it. Listen to critics which you respect. See what wins at film festivals - a far better indication of "quality" than popularity, ticket sales or Academy Awards. Look at Titanic, the largest $$$ grossing movie of all time. Now when you think back on it, isn't it pretty pathetic? The best and most original film of last year, IMO, Memento wasn't even nominated for the Academy's Best Picture and several mediocre films were, including the one that took the prize. Yazad |
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#327 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 198
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Memento was a great film!
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#328 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 739
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I just typed all of this stuff up, and then the stupid computer messed up and earased it all, so I'll make this short and sweet:
Vewing one: dissapounted with Gollum and changes Vewing two: Fine with most of the changes, Gollum was okay Vewing three: No disapountments at all! I'll post the rest in little bits later when I'm not so mad at the computer, and scared that it would earase something that I had been typing for probally 15 minutes, and gone to lordoftherings.net to look up acter's names. ERRRRRRRRR STUPID COMPUTER! I wasn't even done yet, I had more to look up!
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Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES! |
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#329 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Re: Oscars
Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-31-2002 at 04:10 PM. |
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#330 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 797
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Memento was rubbish - no tossing jokes or reference to illicit substance smoking. And you call THAT a film?
![]() Whenever I think of Memento I always picture the bit where he's running and trying to remember what is happening - he sees the guy and thinks he's chasing him, but then realises in fact he's being chased - V. funny ![]() |
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#331 |
Elven Maiden
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,309
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my opinions, as if anyone cared:
good: *gollum/smeagol-looked pretty decent. it coud've been much worse. the split personalitly scene confused me. like i knew what was happening, but it stilll confused me. *merry and pippin-they weren't stupid anymore! *eowyn-she was so perfectly how i imagined her it was scary. *wormtongue-i mean he himself isn't good but he was like he should've been i guess *frodo-i don't know specifically...yeah.... bad: *faramir- these are my brother's exact words: (he hasn't read the books) "I hate him he was a jerk!" *the coneys-*shudder* the second time i saw the movie i shut my eyes. i am a vegetarian too remember. *arwen, or should i just say liv tyler? i never before realized how bad of an actress she really is... *ents-they looked alright but were too mean to merry and pippin. overall i look back and say yeah it was a good movie and i really can't wait for RotK (and i can't!) but there were some parts where i remember being very disappointed. |
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#332 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A house!
Posts: 376
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After it all, I think the second movie is okay, still sub-par but okay...and there are some parts ill never ever understand....anywho...
The thing that bugs me most, is hearing all the directors and people in charge say things like 'it wouldnt have worked anyother way' , 'we had to change the things we did or else it would have sucked' and 'we tried everyway possible to make it work, this was best' Gah! Thats so close-minded, yeah, change is obviously gonna happen, and some are ok, but at least accept it could have been done better. Im not saying I know how, and I accept these films as a pretty good LoTR adaptation... but who says PJ is the greatest director ever? Not me, hes good, but its not like he did it the only way that was possible i nthe world....gah...okay sorry for that rant, just something thats been bugging me.. ~ Celebréiel I like to think of it...as the stuff he took out and changed...he couldnt have done justice anyways (Bombadil, correct treebeard and entmoot etc.) ![]()
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Peace ![]() Yeah, Your an individual...just like everyone else. http://cartalien.deviantart.com/ - Arty goodness |
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#333 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ~New York~
Posts: 15
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I couldn't agree with you more Celebréiel ! I was so turned off when Bombadil wasn't even mentioned....
![]() But I believe that Peter Jackson did a great job and no one could have done it better though. You gotta give him some credit. ![]() |
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#334 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor
Posts: 1,231
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hmmm...i thought Bombadil was pointless in the books.
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I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ![]() |
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#335 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
Posts: 2,679
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I think Tom was there. He was holding the camera in one of those scenes.
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
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#336 | |
Enting
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 81
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>>Even Jackson admitted that he had to around like a politician and convince them to nominate the film. This year he said he was (EDIT in: NOT) going to do that. <<
Glad you edited the NOT in since Peter Jackson absolutely hated the politics of being nominated. He has since stated that if he is ever nominated for anything ever again he will not campaign for it. He was miserable last year. He is quite an independent fellow . . more comfortable in shorts and bare feet than suits and shoes. United Press International: Jackson and Awards Quote:
I am somewhat involved with media speciality too . . by the way . . though not in the way most think . . ![]() Happy New Year All!! |
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#337 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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![]() Quote:
Happy New Year too.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#338 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ~New York~
Posts: 15
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![]() If Bombadil wasn't important in the book, I can see why Jackson cut him from the movie. But there was some logical reason why bombadil was in the book, wasn't there? I mean, what was the point of having him appear in the book then?
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#339 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Now living in Seoul, Korea
Posts: 10
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The Infected Eye
I've only read about half the posts on this thread, but I didn't see anything yet about the Eye. Does it bother anyone else that Sauron is represented somewhat literally as just a giant eyeball on top of a tower? I think his greatest worry should not be an enemy army but an eye infection. There's probably a lot of dust and smoke blowing around in Mordor. I guess the mistake is understandable given that PJ & Co. seem to have just scanned the books without really thinking about anything. Or maybe they thought the viewing audience would be too confused if characters talked about "the Eye" but Sauron had a body too.
I always assumed that "the Eye" refers to the image that appears in people's thoughts when they perceive Sauron's mind. Also, it makes a little sense that Sauron has a body, since he has to wear rings. But I did a bit of looking around for evidence and the most explicit information I could find was in the scene at the Black Gate when Gollum describes the Black Hand. Frodo mentions how Isildur cut off Sauron's finger, and Gollum says: "Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough." Earlier on, he also worries that Frodo will take the Ring back to "the Black Hand." Other good info about the Eye is given by Galadriel when she says to Frodo, "you have seen that which is hidden" and "your sight is grown keener." She's obviously talking about his perception of others' thoughts, not his actual vision. Then she says: "You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine." It's not an exact definition, but I think suggests clearly enough that the Eye is a perception of Sauron's mind. Then in the marshes it seems the Eye is described as Sauron's will (basically the same thing as his mind): "But far more he was troubled by...the Eye: that horrible growing sense of a hostile will that strove with great power to pierce all shadows of cloud, and earth, and flesh, and to see you..." The most confusing descriptions, I think, are in The Silmarillion. They are almost the same, but the first is a bit more detailed and describes Sauron's return to Mordor after losing his body in the wreck of Numenor: "he took up his great Ring in Barad-dur, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure." This seems contradictory. The part about taking up the Ring suggests a body, but then it seems the new form he makes is identified with "the Eye." The sentence structure makes it unclear, though, since the reference to "the Eye" is in a separate clause. So, it could still refer here to Sauron's will rather than his "new guise." Anyway, he had to give himself a body again in order for Isildur to later cut the Ring from his hand! I just have one other question about all this. Has anyone else thought that it might be appropriate to imagine Sauron as a giant black cyclops? Then "the Eye" would be both physical AND the mental projection of his will perceived by the minds of others. I'm not suggesting he should've been shown this way in the films, though, unless maybe in the Prologue. In the films, I think they should've just shown his tower and maybe fire-lit windows with a shadowy form moving inside. It would've also made him more similar to Saruman and Gandalf, but more evil, mysterious, and powerful. Just a thought. |
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#340 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
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I always thought of Sauron as like the wraiths, were the crown or rings were in the place where they would be if you could see the body. I always thought the eye represented a projection of Sauron either by the rings of power or the palantiri. He could no longer take the fairer form after the fall of Numenor. A one point he was a big cat, and another a vampire. I like the big electric eye even though it is nothing like I imagined it.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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