09-28-2004, 12:59 PM | #321 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Here is information on the NJ Department of Education. If we want to talk about education in the US, then everyone will have to present their own state's department of education websites, so they can be compared.
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09-28-2004, 01:25 PM | #322 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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good point... i just appreciated the gaffer's comments on teachers being paid at university levels... yes there are variations state to state... but i think true improvement is going to warrant an exponential increase in the amount of money the US puts towards education... i'm not too keen on the federal government controling how local money is spent... but they are the only part of the political system in the US that can raise money in a way to change education throughout the country
i think it's just as important to my own children's future how we'll students are educated in places like indiana as it is how my own are
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09-28-2004, 02:09 PM | #323 |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
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It's been proven that the best way to help a "people" is through education. Food and Shelter are immediate needs, but education leads development of economy, civil government, better health care (both self <which is very important for women> and organized) and hopefully civility in general. Though, this is mainly provable with examples of communities and regions, since so many nations fall victim to the more powerful (rich or otherwise) who are often thugs in nice clothes.
I taught highshool science at a private academy for several years and loved it for the most part. I can see all sides to the issue. 1. Test are "good" because they give accountability that our children are being taught useful information at some acceptable standard. 2. Test are "poor" because they are often (and almost always) an inaccurate thermometer of the student body. (like eating the cherry off a hot-fudge sundae and grading the entire sundae, you miss the true compilation plus possible a really sweet desert.....hhhmmmmmm chocolate. Politics rarely help in a micro-arena, but they play an important role in the macro.
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09-28-2004, 02:30 PM | #324 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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West Windsor-Plainsboro HS-NORTH CAMPUS 2002-03 SCHOOL REPORT CARD West Windsor-Plainsboro HS-SOUTH CAMPUS 2002-03 SCHOOL REPORT CARD Here is the national report card
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09-30-2004, 08:31 AM | #325 |
Elf Lord
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Agreed that it's not just a question of funding. However, money is a massive issue where a school has crumbling facilities and out of date equipment. Here in the UK, where education is also funded locally rather than centrally (though local authorities get a grant from central government), salary increases and capital investment projects have been supported by more funding from the centre.
It seems likely that the states which were already prepared for these sorts of standards don't object so much because it won't cost them as much to implement; states which don't already have similar schemes will face far higher costs to establish the system. From what I've read about it since, it seems that most of the objections to No Child Left Behind are that the federal government hasn't come through with the money they promised to support implementation. Last edited by The Gaffer : 09-30-2004 at 08:35 AM. |
09-30-2004, 01:09 PM | #326 |
Truest of Friends
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I agree that some regulation is necessary, and that the unprepared schools are the ones getting whacked. It's just that NCLB is an unfunded mandate: there is no money coming to the schools to help with the new changes.
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09-30-2004, 01:27 PM | #327 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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EDIT: Plus - you and me, as taxpayers - are going to cover the cost either way. If the federal government funds it, we'll pay for it with federal taxes. If the state is required to provide funding, we'll pay for it with state taxes. This stuff about 'unfunded mandates' is just more bureacratic griping, as far as I can tell.
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09-30-2004, 01:46 PM | #328 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Another thing, funding comes from Congress - not from the president. Yet everyone is bitching about the president not funding it. If you want it funded - then start writing your congressmen. Even if the president didn't ask for funding - or hasn't pushed for it - doesn't meant congress can't fund it. And as Valandil said - not everything the US Government or any government requires is funded - sometimes that part is left up to you. The more I hear people talk on entmoot the more I see people being completely ignorant of the way our government works, the role of Congress, the role of the president and the role of the supreme court. I would suggest people start reading some books on the US Government and start learning how our system works (checks and balances isn't some good marketing slogan you know ). I can not believe the number of people who do not understand the electorial college, or what congress does, versus what the president can do, versus what the supreme court does. Here are some important books to read to get people started... Decision in Philadelphia (this is an easy book to read and ANYONE who can make it through Lord of the Rings - should be able to read this in no time) Federalist Papers Anti-Federalist Papers The last two you can read on the web. There are plenty of sites that have them up since they are public domain.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-30-2004 at 01:50 PM. |
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09-30-2004, 01:48 PM | #329 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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09-30-2004, 03:24 PM | #330 |
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Presidential debate tonight!!! 9:00-10:30 Eastern. Everybody watch .
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09-30-2004, 03:28 PM | #331 |
The Blobbit
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*Is not Eastern. Has stupid UK TV. Pouts*
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09-30-2004, 03:35 PM | #332 |
Lady of Letters
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Will it be too late for Newsnight?
EDIT: *Is stupid*. Of course it will.
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09-30-2004, 03:38 PM | #333 |
The Blobbit
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If it weren't it would probably not be shown... uninteruppted coverage from the Green Party conference or something...
It's actually too late for the morning papers too. Radio tomorrow it is.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
09-30-2004, 05:30 PM | #334 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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09-30-2004, 05:38 PM | #335 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Unfortunately I'll be working when they're showing the debate here in Norway. JD, could you provide any links when it's come?
I'm not very familiar with American web-papers and I don't have much time to fool around looking for it.
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09-30-2004, 05:50 PM | #336 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-01-2004, 01:32 AM | #337 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Here is the debate from C-SPAN - it should open up real player
If you can't see it go to this page - Presidentiall Debates.
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10-01-2004, 02:48 AM | #338 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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missed most of the debate - oldest son at late orthodontic appt ...
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10-01-2004, 04:57 AM | #339 | |
Elf Lord
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The difference, of course, is that you are not being asked to fundamentally change the way you do your job. It seems naive to attempt reform of an entire profession like this and expect it just to happen without proper funding. To reiterate my view of the introduction of standards in the UK, they've only worked because there have been resources put behind them (for training, curriculum development and for teachers' pay). EVen then, many teachers feel they have to spend more and more time on paperwork and testing when they should be teaching. |
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10-01-2004, 05:10 AM | #340 |
Elf Lord
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Round 1 of the Ugly Contest
OK, so what are the verdicts?
THe papers here seem to range between a "victory on points for Kerry" (Times) to a stronger "first blood to Kerry" (Guardian). The NY Times seems to lean towards Kerry too. It would be particularly interesting to hear from people who were, or are, undecided. |
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