03-24-2003, 05:03 AM | #321 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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03-24-2003, 06:21 AM | #322 | |
Elf Lord
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03-24-2003, 06:56 AM | #323 | |
the Shrike
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03-24-2003, 07:22 AM | #324 | |
Elf Lord
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Also, you will notice that we also saw Iraqi prisoners; both sides have consistently broken this rule.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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03-24-2003, 10:02 AM | #325 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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As for the US violating the GC-article 13, how so? Any of the Iraqi POWs that have been shown on tv, were shown on the field when they were taken into custody. there are large amounts of journalists that are with the coalition forces that are covering the war. There is a big difference between showing soldiers being taken into custody on the battlefield, and soldiers being taken to an undisclosed location, interviewed as a pretence of interrogation, and paraded before the cameras. Also, when did the US show dead Iraqi soldiers that we executed, laying in undignified positions that they were manipulated into on camera?
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03-24-2003, 10:45 AM | #326 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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And so it gets messy. No surprise that.
The bombing, so I understand (courtesy of the Iraqi Blogger Salam Pax-the URL is in this thread) is very precise (the bombs hit where they should) but since all the facility are in the middle of residential areas there's lots of collatoral damage, and of course the city is getting wrecked which naturally pisses off the Iraqis. I don't the think the U.S is going to enjoy the occupation of Iraq...but I still wish them luck, because they really really need it.
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03-24-2003, 11:34 AM | #327 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Luck! There is no "luck"! Empty wishes......
I wish them well. Very well.
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03-24-2003, 11:37 AM | #328 | |||
Elf Lord
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I did see one report that some of the Iraqi missile attacks were coming from a range of 110- 120 miles ( about 180 kms.) which would put them over the 90-mile limit, but I've been jumping around to so many sites I can't remember where. Quote:
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03-24-2003, 11:47 AM | #329 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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All this just confirms the obvious: The war is not fought on the battlefield alone, but also in the media.
I for one do not trust any news from the war these days. It's interesting to read American newspapers and notice the difference in war coverage from the Norwegian newspapers.
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03-24-2003, 11:57 AM | #330 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Hussein just had to come clean on hiis chemical and biological weapons or leave the country. He chose neither. The fact that we are there in his country lies squarely on Hussein.
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03-24-2003, 11:57 AM | #331 | ||
Elf Lord
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First, it demoralise the enemy, making them less likely to fight, and therefore saving the life’s of both your soldiers and the Iraqi’s. It is the proverbial case of doing the lesser evil to avoid doing the greater one (killing). Second, it shows they are well, and not being mistreated. This is rather important, especially to avoid ugly rumours to surface among the Arab world, and indeed even among Iraqi combatants. If they were not shown you may be sure that, by now, many Arabs would be asking themselves what was the fate of their “brothers”, and ugly rumours would have appeared. As for the case of the prisoners taken by the Iraqis, I’ve just said it, but I will repeat it. I believe that because they are shown they are now safer then before, so it is a positive thing, despite being a blatant violation of the Convention. Again, it is a trade of a greater evil for a lesser one. Finally, I wasn’t speaking about images of the dead at all, as you may have noticed. Nor, I must say, were they shown in the local media (at least up to now), it seems we have a more restrained media around here, fortunately, since showing them is just doing Saddan’s immoral game.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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03-24-2003, 12:07 PM | #332 | |
Elf Lord
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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03-24-2003, 12:12 PM | #333 | ||
Elf Lord
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03-24-2003, 12:49 PM | #334 | |
Elf Lord
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The problem is, everything Saddam is doing is to try and make the coalition target civilians and those trying to separate themselves from the regime. Look at what the fake surrenders do- it makes the US and British troops more wary of accepting white flags- and if word gets out, as I'm sure it will, it makes Iraqi troops more wary of surrendering, not knowing if the enemy will be willing to trust them. Same thing with the fighting in the cities. The Iraqi forces are dispersing into the civilian population and forcing the coalition to try and attack them there. They're putting their anti-aircraft on apartment buildings and their artillery in residential neighborhoods. Their whole aim is to try and shift the brunt of the Coalition attack from the regime to the people, in hopes that it will enrage the population as well as opposition in the outside world. I don't think it's going to work- in the end I think most people will just try and keep their head down- but it's going to be messy.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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03-24-2003, 12:54 PM | #335 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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03-24-2003, 01:54 PM | #336 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Graymouser - I agree with you 100% with you on that is Hussein's plan. We are working our hardest not to hurt innocent civilians. Our Apache helicopters were attacked brutaly and we couldn't do much because theywere massed aroudn residential areas.
Hussein wants to try dragging this out so we have no choice but to pull out, but that is OUT of the question. If we pull out - we might as well tell Osama Bin Ladin that he was right - "when the tough get going - we get out". We might as well open up the doors of America to him and tell to go right ahead and bomb us. I don't want innocent Iraqis dying. I also think that it was a definite mistake not to secure the lower areas of Iraq. I think we should have secured the southern and northern sections of Iraq - bring in humaitarian aid and then work on Baghdad. Of course that is 20/20 hindsight. It was felt that with the massive bombing campaigns against the government buildings that Hussein's regime would crumble. Now I think we need to rethink - and concentrate on isolating Hussein to Baghdad - while we secure the area around it. This will allow us to bring in the humanitarian aid that needs to be brought in. Right now the Iraqis are complaining that we didn't bring humantarian aid - but we can't because the southern ports are still unstable. We need to draw Hussein's troops out into the open. Encourage them to leave Baghdad and attack us more in the open. I'm not sure how to do that exactly - I'm just saying what the best scenario would be. The world should be outraged that while the US is trying to prevent civilian loses - he's trying to indirectly and in some ways directly cause them.
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03-24-2003, 03:42 PM | #337 |
Long lost mooter
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I have a question -- the UN weapons inspectors left Iraq a day or two before the war started. Did they ever give a final report, or was it left as "inconclusive" because they had to leave early? I thought the deadline was set for after they were to have finished the inspections. I'm just curious, because I remember hearing they were leaving, but haven't heard anything since about if they thought it likely the WMD existed.
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03-24-2003, 03:58 PM | #338 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-24-2003, 04:13 PM | #339 | |
High King of Númenórë
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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03-24-2003, 04:17 PM | #340 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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