Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - Page 17

Lord Choc Obo · 09-08-2005, 07:13 PM

CONSPIRACY TIME

woow, now that's a super theory, that would be great, getting snape back to the good side, letting snape kill petigrew whom he despised, Dumbeldore still alive,...
but on the other hand, Pettigrew couldn't have done all those things in the cave with the Horcrux and he would've never talked like that to Malfoy...the final talk with of DD to Malfoy was a true Dumbeldore talk, even if you say he looks different in the book with bragging and such, he's still very much dumbeldore in the end.

a few flaws, but worth the thought, something to keep in mind when re-reading the book.

tolkienfan · 09-08-2005, 07:55 PM

It sounds like a good theory to me, but I don't know about Wormtail. Wouldn't You-Know-Who notice that he was gone a lot? Plus I don't think he could pull it off. He's not smart enough.

Beren3000 · 09-09-2005, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Choc Obo

Pettigrew couldn't have done all those things in the cave with the Horcrux and he would've never talked like that to Malfoy...the final talk with of DD to Malfoy was a true Dumbeldore talk

I agree, but I think that the way in which Wormtail was made to look and sound like DD is more complex than just Polyjuice Potion, for example. I think it's a different kind of magic to be explained in the next book. Maybe that magic allowed the real DD to talk through Wormtail in crucial moments.

***Khamûl*** · 09-09-2005, 11:37 AM

I'm sorry, but I still believe that Dumbledore is dead. That's not to say that there's not something fishy about his death, but I still think he's dead.

Here's an excerpt from an interview of JK Rowling (JKR):

Quote:

JKR: Well, there you go. See, I'm aware that “Half-Blood Prince” will not delight everyone, because it does shoot down some theories. I mean, if it didn't, I haven't done my job right. A few people won't particularly like it, and a lot of people aren't going to like the death very much, but that was always what was planned to come.

We still don't know whether there was a genuine leak on that, or whether it was speculation that happened to be accurate.

ES: With this book?

MA: Remember the bets?

ES: Oh yeah -

JKR: Yeah, the betting scam. Well, we're now 50/50. If you remember, on “Phoenix,” the betting went for Cho Chang, and it was exactly the same thing. Suddenly someone put up something like £10,000 on Cho Chang to die, and you wouldn't think someone would waste that kind of money, so we think that they thought they had inside information. On the Dumbledore one, we still don't know. Was there a genuine leak or did someone just guess, and get it right?

ES: I remember actually putting a poll up on MuggleNet asking people if they thought he was going to bite it.

JKR: And what was the result? That's really interesting.

ES: The majority thought he was going to die in book six — well, six or seven. Most thought it was going to be in seven.

JKR: Really. Yeah.

ES: It was probably 65/35, but definitely, most thought he was going to die.

JKR: Yeah, well, I think if you take a step back, in the genre of writing that I'm working in, almost always the hero must go on alone. That's the way it is, we all know that, so the question is when and how, isn't it, if you know anything about the construction of that kind of plot.

ES: The wise old wizard with the beard always dies.

JKR: Well, that's basically what I'm saying, yes.

[Laughter]

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-09-2005, 12:16 PM

Nice theory Beren, but I agree with Khamûl. I just can't see Dumbledore returning. IMO Harry has o this by himself (maybe with a little help from Ron, Hermione and Neville) but DD returning wouldn't be right.

emily leonard · 09-09-2005, 01:10 PM

i agree in the end its going to have to be up 2 harry nobody can help him

cee2lee2 · 09-09-2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily leonard

i agree in the end its going to have to be up 2 harry nobody can help him

I really, really, really like Beren3000's theory and I wish it were true, but based on the Rowling interview, it probably isn't.

***Fat middle*** · 09-10-2005, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cee2lee2

I really, really, really like Beren3000's theory and I wish it were true, but based on the Rowling interview, it probably isn't.

But I can't see why, if JKR is trying to write after a model, that model cannot finally result to be LOTR: the wise old wizard with the beard dies... but then he returns... and that's not a problem for the young hero to be the one that in the end have to fight alone

Beren3000 · 09-10-2005, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Middle

But I can't see why, if JKR is trying to write after a model, that model cannot finally result to be LOTR: the wise old wizard with the beard dies... but then he returns... and that's not a problem for the young hero to be the one that in the end have to fight alone

Agreed! Plus, what JKR said in the interview about people not liking the death could simply mean that people would think that DD's dead and therefore wouldn't like it. And, as you said FM, DD's return doesn't mean that he will help Harry fight Voldemort. Maybe DD will return at the very end of book 7

cee2lee2 · 09-10-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat middle

But I can't see why, if JKR is trying to write after a model, that model cannot finally result to be LOTR: the wise old wizard with the beard dies... but then he returns... and that's not a problem for the young hero to be the one that in the end have to fight alone

Hmmm....I see what you mean. Now I just have to hope she's following the LOTR model!

Lord Choc Obo · 09-13-2005, 06:56 PM

I was rethinking the theories of DD still being alive, but I'm just...really not sure, ya know, with the way it happens, the fact that NO ONE from the order seems to have known about the possible "swap" when they could just have known as long as there was a safekeeper, Hagrid seems devasted and if anyone would've known, it would've been Hagrid in my mind, also the funeral and the white casket and all; and the photograph of DD in the Headmaster's office...

I don't think he's coming back, except if he could talk out of his photograph or something.

aaaaah well, but still, I like conspiracies

Rconsole · 09-13-2005, 07:26 PM

It's gonna be interesting to see what he has to say, if anything at all through his portrait in the Headmaster/Headmistress' office...Do you think JKR will include that in Book 7?

**Nurvingiel** · 09-17-2005, 06:38 AM

I hope so, I love the portraits. And they've been plot devices before (Phineus Nigellus).

Sorry guys, but Dumbledore is D-E-D dead. If he weren't, it wouldn't be Harry who fights Voldemort in the end would it? If Rowling is following any model, it would be having a plot that makes sense. She wouldn't have Dumbledore come back to life and steal Harry's thunder. (As awesome as Dumbledore was.

)

Spock · 09-19-2005, 02:24 PM

Well I decided not to wait until October to re-read HBP. I'm paying more attention to the 'little things' and getting a deeper picture of the whole book this time around. I feel the portraits can contribute a great deal and perhaps D's will do so in the next book. Most enjoyable the second time around.

***Fat middle*** · 09-19-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Well I decided not to wait until October to re-read HBP. I'm paying more attention to the 'little things' and getting a deeper picture of the whole book this time around. I feel the portraits can contribute a great deal and perhaps D's will do so in the next book. Most enjoyable the second time around.

Is there a reason why Dumbledores' portrait didn't speak at the end of the book? I mean, it was a bit odd it being there and saying nothing when everybody would expect him to do it...

Elanor · 09-19-2005, 06:10 PM

Maybe he wasn't ready yet, or maybe portraits don't activate until after their funeral, or maybe he was just sleepy.

Spock · 09-19-2005, 07:46 PM

Yeah, I go along with E on that one. The 'portrait' just got there and so needed to rest and settle in a bit. Then too he didn't have a script for the next book

durinsbane2244 · 09-19-2005, 08:06 PM

indeed, i think he was following the other portraits usual occupation, good ol' sleep!

Elanor · 09-19-2005, 09:15 PM

And he had just been through that huge ordeal. I don't blame him if he wanted a break!

Beren3000 · 09-20-2005, 03:33 AM

*Grins smugly*
You poor misled people!

09-08-2005, 07:55 PM	#322
tolkienfan Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Internet Posts: 803	It sounds like a good theory to me, but I don't know about Wormtail. Wouldn't You-Know-Who notice that he was gone a lot? Plus I don't think he could pull it off. He's not smart enough. __________________ Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar!

09-09-2005, 12:16 PM	#325
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Nice theory Beren, but I agree with Khamûl. I just can't see Dumbledore returning. IMO Harry has o this by himself (maybe with a little help from Ron, Hermione and Neville) but DD returning wouldn't be right. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-09-2005, 01:10 PM	#326
emily leonard Enting Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: on the moon but i do vist earth now and again Posts: 57	harry i agree in the end its going to have to be up 2 harry nobody can help him __________________ why me?

09-19-2005, 02:24 PM	#334
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Well I decided not to wait until October to re-read HBP. I'm paying more attention to the 'little things' and getting a deeper picture of the whole book this time around. I feel the portraits can contribute a great deal and perhaps D's will do so in the next book. Most enjoyable the second time around. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

09-19-2005, 06:10 PM	#336
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Maybe he wasn't ready yet, or maybe portraits don't activate until after their funeral, or maybe he was just sleepy. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

09-08-2005, 07:13 PM	#321
Lord Choc Obo Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 101	CONSPIRACY TIME woow, now that's a super theory, that would be great, getting snape back to the good side, letting snape kill petigrew whom he despised, Dumbeldore still alive,... but on the other hand, Pettigrew couldn't have done all those things in the cave with the Horcrux and he would've never talked like that to Malfoy...the final talk with of DD to Malfoy was a true Dumbeldore talk, even if you say he looks different in the book with bragging and such, he's still very much dumbeldore in the end. a few flaws, but worth the thought, something to keep in mind when re-reading the book.

09-13-2005, 06:56 PM	#331
Lord Choc Obo Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 101	I was rethinking the theories of DD still being alive, but I'm just...really not sure, ya know, with the way it happens, the fact that NO ONE from the order seems to have known about the possible "swap" when they could just have known as long as there was a safekeeper, Hagrid seems devasted and if anyone would've known, it would've been Hagrid in my mind, also the funeral and the white casket and all; and the photograph of DD in the Headmaster's office... I don't think he's coming back, except if he could talk out of his photograph or something. aaaaah well, but still, I like conspiracies

09-13-2005, 07:26 PM	#332
Rconsole Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 359	It's gonna be interesting to see what he has to say, if anything at all through his portrait in the Headmaster/Headmistress' office...Do you think JKR will include that in Book 7?

09-19-2005, 07:46 PM	#337
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Yeah, I go along with E on that one. The 'portrait' just got there and so needed to rest and settle in a bit. Then too he didn't have a script for the next book __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

09-19-2005, 08:06 PM	#338
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	indeed, i think he was following the other portraits usual occupation, good ol' sleep! __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

09-19-2005, 09:15 PM	#339
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	And he had just been through that huge ordeal. I don't blame him if he wanted a break! __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

09-20-2005, 03:33 AM	#340
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Grins smugly You poor misled people!