12-08-2003, 01:31 PM | #321 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
I don't like to quote from books too often, because I think it's more valuable for people to be able to put things into their own words, but I think C. S. Lewis has such an excellent answer to this, and it makes such sense, that I'll quote him: Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 12-08-2003 at 01:33 PM. |
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12-08-2003, 01:34 PM | #322 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-08-2003, 01:54 PM | #323 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Rian: Yup.
Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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12-08-2003, 02:00 PM | #324 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Tanks (Sherman? ...)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-08-2003, 02:16 PM | #325 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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(after spending 2.5 minutes trying to figure out what "tanks means... ) Sherman?
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
12-08-2003, 02:20 PM | #326 | |
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Quote:
(EDIT: Rian - be very careful... our ages are showing!) Last edited by Valandil : 12-08-2003 at 02:21 PM. |
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12-08-2003, 02:43 PM | #327 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I figured out the "tanks", it was just the Sherman I was having trouble with. Thanks.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
12-08-2003, 06:01 PM | #328 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-09-2003, 03:30 AM | #329 |
Elven Warrior
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Rian, excellent use of CS Lewis in reply to Falagar’s question... there’s no point excusing yourself for quoting his words .
--Dave
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Miserable mourning is never the equal of noble action; nor are rest and relaxation as good as war, trouble and action. --Bertran de Born, Knight and Troubadour Castle Duncan |
12-09-2003, 01:13 PM | #330 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, I think it's an excellent answer - can't wait to meet the fellow!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-10-2003, 01:49 AM | #331 |
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Freakin' spammers
And now... back on topic. Discussing morality and it's ties to religous and nonreligious origins. |
12-10-2003, 11:12 AM | #332 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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i have a question on morality:
obviously you can be either an athiest, agnostic or believer of some kind and live a moral life... any of these people can also be immoral (i could list a few popes for you )... so in the end, is this idea that one must believe in god to live a moral life valid? |
12-10-2003, 11:38 AM | #333 | |
Elf Lord
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From Rian, from the Gay thread
Quote:
The followers of Ayn Rand certainly would. They call themselves Objectivists because they think that their beliefs are as logically valid as 1+1=2. Amongst which is the idea that belief in God is necessarily Evil.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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12-10-2003, 11:42 AM | #334 | |
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Quote:
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12-10-2003, 11:48 AM | #335 |
Elf Lord
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Well, I'm far from being a follower of Ayn Rand- I was just using her and her movement as an (extreme) example of non- relativistic atheism. Marxism would be equally valid.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
12-10-2003, 12:00 PM | #336 | |
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12-10-2003, 12:34 PM | #337 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
The question is not whether any particular morality is good or bad, but whether there is a logical belief behind it. You may want to argue the joys of the Gulag vs. the Inquisition, but that's not really the point.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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12-10-2003, 01:17 PM | #338 | |
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Just when I thought I was on a roll... |
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12-10-2003, 05:01 PM | #339 | |
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12-10-2003, 11:46 PM | #340 | |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
Granted, that last statement is a generalization, and since Karl Marx has been mentioned already, he can serve to show how complicated this can be. Marx may not have been a relativist, per se, but he was in no wise an “objectivist” in the ilk of Aristotelianism or modern Thomistic realism. His use of Hegel’s dialect and his theory of human nature based on function and labor demonstrates a fairly strong subjectivist leaning, even though we would be hesitant to call him a full blown relativist. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Marx did more than anyone in the modern era to demonstrate the extent to which social and philosophical thought had been imprisoned by the constructs of Enlightenment philosophy. His thought, like the equally dangerous German Romanticism on the continent, was a reaction to the brutality of economic liberalism and the spiritual aridity of subjectivism, but his thought hardly goes beyond the Newtonian deism and Darwinian manifest destiny that marked his entire generation. Marx, perhaps much like Fichte, was a genius, but was limited by the struggles and the errors of the age in which he was born. Thus we are confronted with something much more profound than whether or not the logic is good. I can make a very convincing and logical argument that the moon is made out of cheese, and if you accept the starting premises of the argument, you would have a hard time refuting the conclusion. Of course, those starting premises is where you have to start in order to refute the conclusion of my argument. Now if I was to say that the general rule “no part is greater than its whole” is an axiom that governs the real world we experience, and you say “no, such a rule is merely a mental construct that enables us to function in an otherwise random world,” it is my opinion that we are at irreconcilable loggerheads. It is here, at the very base of all modern philosophical debate, that faith, or at least fundamental belief, enters into both sides of the argument. It is at this point that the realist, or objectivist, must turn the debate and attempt to demonstrate which of these two fundamental beliefs best reflects the way humans live and function in the world. Not an easy endeavor, because such a twist can lead the realist back down the path to relativism... a philosophy based solely on function. --Dave
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Miserable mourning is never the equal of noble action; nor are rest and relaxation as good as war, trouble and action. --Bertran de Born, Knight and Troubadour Castle Duncan Last edited by Guillaume le Maréchal : 12-11-2003 at 12:05 AM. |
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