*Discussion Thread* Of Nazgûl-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign (Calling all Nazgûl II)

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by gordis

Good post, Val.
Only I doubt that a bartender or a servant would be admitted to the University. I think, it was for nobles only. ME is not a democratic place, not at all. Neither was Numenor. Of course, it is just my thought, I have nothing to prove my POV...

Just throwing in some touches of 'modern culture' into this setting... like a University that's considered a 'party school' - or 'tabloid press', ready to write all kinds of crazy rumors about the royals - and maybe a few other things.

In ME, I don't think we even see evidence of anything like universities, etc. - so I was just taking it step further to introduce someone 'working their way through'.

OK - looks like I missed a little craziness and tension - and when I hopped on last night, it was only for a few moments, because the kids were demanding my attention almost as much as you guys. I have to leave real soon now too. But I hope we've all started to iron things out.

CS - can you accept things with the retractions that Lief has made?

Lief - I missed your edited posts - but for now, things are still going peacefully at Tharbad - and I think a Nazgul call - even if it was weak, and outside the city, and in a language nobody but Nazgul understood - would set the whole town on edge. And there are probably plenty of 'war veterans' around who WOULD recognize it for what it was. For now, Nazgul and the rest of us are interacting - and the rest of us don't have a clue. After something like that, we Men and Elves would start looking for anything suspicious (right now... they have us where they want us ). (EDIT: and if he IS a Balrog - the one in Moria is due to sleep undisturbed for another 1931 years - and has no clue about the Ring or Ringwraiths)

Oh - and no, I don't think any orcs would venture into the world of Men or Elves or Dwarves in ME... they'd be shot on sight.

Rian - I think you got much of the summary right. Gordis is also due to bring in another Nazgul soon. Funny... I had been hoping the non-Nazguls would outnumber the Nazguls (like about 2 to 1 - or even 3 to 2) - but we're really getting swamped by Nazguls - and have a potential Balrog or Blarog or Barlog at the gates!

*joins in the tickling of CS* (EDIT: WHoops... TICKLING it is! )

[Valandil]

Oh yeah - and "Last Sane Person" - the game of 'Dunedain Football' is sort of a cross between 'Capture the Flag' and Rugby... 'no holds barred' - as BB says.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

What I posted originally, and then deleted, was a weak and distorted Nazgul scream erupting from outside the city that summoned the other Nazgul, pleading with them to come and join him in the grove he was waiting at. My recent ideas were simply as follows.

The call was from outside the city, not in. It also isn't blowing anyone's disguise, because the call is in a Mordor/ringwraith-cry language, which no one but Nazgul would understand. The people of Tharbad therefore have no reason to believe there are other Nazgul in their settlement, and even if they did wonder, they'd have absolutely no reason to finger any of the existing Nazgul.

As regards disruption of sub-plots, I don't think that this would be an issue either. We could play it as "Fellowship of the Ringwraiths" is done, in that there are all sorts of side adventures and detours while people are doing the main quest. Meanwhile, if none of the Nazgul like my character's idea anyway, they can just ignore him completely.

So that's my basic idea. There's no reason for disguises to be compromised. There's no reason why sub-plots must cease.

I honestly was thinking that way the whole time. I was a little dense, and didn't realize that people would assume my translation of the Nazgul speech was available for all to hear. It was actually meant for only other Nazgul to be able to properly understand.

I was a bit confused as to why people were objecting so vehemently to those two posts I sent, but I'm hopeful that this clarification will help.

So the mystery is solved. The disgusting thing in a carriage was meant to be a NAZGUL. If it is your idea of them, we have nothing to do with you. I will not continue to participate, if your posts are not deleted entirely. That character ruins the game.

Re: your post #268
Normally when a new player enters the game, he has to ask permission to introduce the new character, and be careful with other people's (who were here before you!) ideas.

Look at it this way. Several artists are working on a big mosaic representing, say, the Siege of Barad Dur. Everyone starts at his/her corner and puts together an intricate pattern keeping their utmost attention to detail. The centre of the picture is still empty, but all the workers have already a rather detailed picture of the whole in their minds, the whole thing was already discussed and agreed upon. Then a stranger comes, and seeing the empty space in the centre, makes a picture of a sexy blonde in a bikini. When the startled artists complain, he explains haughtily, that they were working on disjointed pieces and now they sort of have the central theme and the right direction and he is the one who knows what the picture should look, when finished. And he points out that he never touched any of the corners other people were working at. To show his goodwill he even agrees to dress the blonde a little.

I propose to Valandil, who has the divine right to split threads, take away your posts starting with #44 into a new RPG. Then you can have your plot and direct it as you like.

I side with CS and Lotesse.

[Butterbeer]

heh Valandil!

well the "gutter" press ia at this very momment about to (try) and talk to some (normally) chatty beauties and your unoffcial "minders" ...


to all: BTW i don't see the press being that gutter: this IS middle earth!

Val: could you post a link to the "game" in either letters of F or tales of V: or copy a brief description over?

...well the non nazgul characters grow too!

*joins in the ticking of CS*

what does that mean? I am not aware of that particular Phrase?

AHHH! tickling wes it?

*tickles CS too* : mmm i thought i saw her smile for a momment there: and such a great smile too!

really hopes CS will be cool: for one thing half the players will have to leave, including me if she forces the issue! you know how militant the brotherhood of butterflies are!

best all

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

...well the "gutter" press ia at this very momment about to (try) and talk to some (normally) chatty beauties and your unoffcial "minders" ...

Yes - I had suspected so.

In fact, I wondered if she might make rapid sketches... to take the place of photographs. I even thought about having her sketch Valandil conversing with Annawen at The Red Herring, but thought the garden area would be a little screened off - and she was clearly on the first floor, not third. (so I saved myself the trouble)

Yes - I believe the noble game of Rochdol is described in Firiel's Letter #4 - at the point where Arvedui and Firiel arrive in their new home of Fornost - though it is a girls' point of view. I'll post something to it later if nobody else has - gotta go now.

[Earniel]

And as usual blow-ups occur when I'm asleep...

I must say I am rather disappointed by your reactions. I was hoping we all would be mature enough to solve differences in opinion over plots peacefully without having to take sides or having to retort to comments like "now you've completely ruined it" and "I'm leaving if I do not get my way".

Characters belong to individuals but the game belongs to everybody playing it. If you're unhappy with the way Lief entered this game, say so without getting too defensive. It's too dumb to be leaving over something like this. We've barely started! Surely there will be more differences of opinion along the way. I don't see while we get to introduce new elements and Lief who joined later, on our own invitation, may not. True, some warning would have been nice. True, his new elements are a little too intrusive in the already existing plot-threads but there's in my opinion no need to respond so harshly.

Now I for one, am interested in the plots Lief comes up with because I have played with him in the past and am used to having to find things out in the game without being told in advance. Frodo didn't know what was going to happen when he agreed to take the Ring to Mordor either. So far I have not once been disappointed and I quite enjoy that form of playing too.

But that sort of RPG-ing usually takes a strong game master, such as Lief is used to playing. Since I monitor all games in this forum I am well aware that that is not the way most of you have been playing or prefer to play. And maybe that is indeed not the best way to play this particular game.

Still, I think it's commendable that Lief wants to try and pull all plots together since we were saying in this discussion thread earlier that our current plot could still use some more developping. But I think that maybe keeping the main plot 'public' is better for this particular game. Although I do think a little mystery here and there can only make this game more interesting.

Now this is a game we're all playing together and since we bugged Lief until he joined, I suggest we look together over what he has introduced so far and what of those elements we can keep. I don't think we can ask that he deletes everything. That would require RÃ*an to edit her posts too. It's a game of give and take. So please, do not assume too rigid stances here and please be prepared to work to a compromise.

Now personally I think the figure in the coach, with some modifications, can be kept. I do not think there should be another Nazgul. The Nine are pretty much established, even in another game, so I don't think the addition to a completely new nazgul is opportune. (Except for the Witch-King, since he has yet to enter the game, right? Who was playing him again?) However, we still haven't figured out what called all 9 nazguls seperately to Tharbad. It doesn't need to be a nazgul but it might very well be Lief's figure in the coach. Perhaps a thrid party that wishes to use the Nazgul's abilities to track down the one Ring and then take it for his own?

So can we please iron these plot-difficulties out together or not?

[Lief Erikson]

Please, I would very much appreciate people bringing objections with my posts up to me and I'll explain and modify as they wish. I'm glad about those objections I've heard, because I certainly hate misunderstandings. Those I have heard, I can help to explain.

Originally Posted by gordis

So the mystery is solved. The disgusting thing in a carriage was meant to be a NAZGUL. If it is your idea of them, we have nothing to do with you. I will not continue to participate, if your posts are not deleted entirely. That character ruins the game.

The figure in the coach is not a Nazgul! Neither is he a Balrog. He is evil enough that he knows how to imitate a Nazgul, though far from proficiently. That is why his Nazgul call was weak and pathetic. I in no way meant to imply that the other Nazgul are weak and pathetic. In fact, it's because they're not that he needs their help!

I can also adjust the post to make it so pathetic an imitation that people wake up laughing and thinking the Nazgul are totally clobbered. Would that work for people?

Originally Posted by Eärniel

But that sort of RPG-ing usually takes a strong game master, such as Lief is used to playing. Since I monitor all games in this forum I am well aware that that is not the way most of you have been playing or prefer to play. And maybe that is indeed not the best way to play this particular game.

I can adjust, I think. I in no way want to stamp on individual thinking or subplots. In fact, I love it when those aspects of roleplaying are in the RPGs I do.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

... Since I monitor all games in this forum I am well aware that that is not the way most of you have been playing or prefer to play. And maybe that is indeed not the best way to play this particular game.

Do you guys usually know the whole plot before you start? Or at least a rough outline?

[CrazySquirrel]

Earniel, have you READ yesterday's posts? Do you KNOW what it was like? All of us, who were online, nearly got mad. PM's have flown in flocks.
Read the posts. We tried to be nice, we REALLY did. Then we decided it was too much for us. I became the spokesman, that's all.

To Lief Erikson:
Ahhh, so the bloated thing was not a nazgul. Be careful then, when you refer to "other nazgul", if you are NOT one of us.

About your character. Do you REALIZE, that the only responce the bloated thing will get from the ringwraiths in the present situation is an ugly end? We can come and kill you if you so wish. We can ignore you completely. But then Val's soldiers will shoot you and your orc and your mutant horses on sighting. Your character is short-lived anyway. Do you not see it?

Why won't you READ the thread at last and pick someone decent? Val's adviser, Earniel's sweetheart, a Governor of Tharbad, a city whore, a mad elf, a street cat, you name it?

I hate quarrels. I really do. And I don't want to quit. But I will, if yesterday's situation ever repeats itself.

We don't need a gamemaster here. I am used to be my own mistress, thank you. Especially we do not need a "gamemaster" who bangs in, asks in a hurry "what is the time and place?" and then "pulls our threads together".

The Nazgul are well established and taken care of. Soon we will be reunited, believe me. Three have met already, soon there will be more. All goes along the plan. We have agreed on it between ourselves, and gave enough hints to the "other side". Anyone who bothers to read the Discussion thread will know it.
AND reading BOTH threads before joining is a simple courtesy to the other players, IMHO. Do you agree with me?

[Rían]

I've read the entire discussion thread and the entire rpg thread now, but this one seems a little more complex because apparently it's a re-start of one that existed before.

Anyway, I liked everything about the mysterious character in the coach, except the orc driver - maybe you can make it a little toned-down, Lief, kind of like the Bill Ferny character or the squint-eyed Southerner in LOTR - characters that obviously have orc-blood in them?

[Rían]

Eärniel, be sure to read my post #54!

[Earniel]

Yes CS, I have READ yesterday's posts. Yes, I noticed you all got mad, but I don't think it was necesary. I really do not see why you should have gotten so upset, I honestly DON'T. So no, I probably don't know what it's like.

Lief has admitted he should have read the threads before and clearly indicated that he would pull out if anyone would be leaving over his posts. He offered to fix the situation. He has been friendly about it. Frankly, what more do you want? You can at least show him the same curtesy.

I know you don't want any one else to infiltrate in your 'inner nazgul circle' but you can't expect Lief to have known that. You don't want any more nazgul or anything remotely resembling one, FINE, that TELL us. None of us are mind-readers, misunderstanding is bound to happen. Just say so and we look how we can change the situation accordingly.

I never said we needed a gamemaster! Not in this game. Nor did Lief said he would be. He just wanted to help. If it's not appreciated tell so NICELY, no need to bite his nose off over it. There are different ways of playing RPG's, Lief's just used to another way. But he said he will adapt.

Now Lief has admitted he made mistakes and is offering to find a way to make amends. So I think we can call off the blame-game. So can we all help to solve this problem constructively or is that too much to ask?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Do you guys usually know the whole plot before you start? Or at least a rough outline?

It depends. There are so many different ways. Sometimes the players are only given a basic outline, a vague discription or only a starting point with a game master leading and tweaking the game as it progresses. Some games are parodies of books so everybody knows the whole plot. Some make up as they go along, without any steering. In other games the progression of the plot is discussed democratically and decisions are made in group.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I've read the entire discussion thread and the entire rpg thread now, but this one seems a little more complex because apparently it's a re-start of one that existed before.

Not really a restart but it's a complicated history all right. I closed a thread about Nazgul that didn't really fit in anywhere and had ended up in the RPG-forum. As the mod team was looking into it where we could allow such a thread, another identical thread was started in the RPG-forum. We managed to convert both threads to RPG-threads, the second thread became the discussion-thread and I re-opened and cleaned out the first thread to serve as game thread. The names got changed accordingly and voila.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Eärniel, be sure to read my post #54!

Grrrrr...

[Lotesse]

How about this - all of us who are on board and actively working a new character, put some kind of explanatory biography profile here so we can all very plainly see who's who and what's what?

A Biography Profile

Viniglaen, Nazgul Ringwraith #9

Born and raised in Andulie, Numenor, of unknown lineage & family.

The youngest of the Nine, became a wraith after stealing a ring from a young Numenorian king's safe and then using the ring herself.

Physically: About 5'3", she is by far the tiniest in stature of all the ringwraiths, but what she lacks in height she makes up for in depth of character and passionate intensity. Petite, tomboyish, unusually beautiful yet surprisingly strong, she sports short, sexily tousled hair the rich dark colour of walnut wood, and fiercely brilliant large eyes the colour of a twilight sky peek out from under her wavy, silky bangs. Very white skin; small pink bow-shaped lips.

Emotionally, Intellectually: Moody as all get out, possessing a temper that can match even the Witch King's himself - she is prone to unexpected violent mood swings (rather like someone I know ), but she is highly loyal and enjoys defending the weak from the strong,. In that vein, as much as she steals, she gives away - to her friends and Nazgul "family," with the exception of course being the Ruling Ring and/or a Silmaril, both of which she has high hopes of someday finding.

Skills: Master Thief and Catburglar of all Middle-Earth, her thievery skills are absolutely legendary and unsurpassed, yet her true identity is rarely revealed in the event of an historical heist ever happening. There's a connexion between what she does and the stuff that was in the Barrow Downs, for instance. Viniglaen is impossible to deceive - she's "up on game," I guess you could say. She's extremely gifted , but unfortunately missed out on a classic Numenorian high education, as she was barely 22 years old at the time she became a Nazgul. She has put the ages of time to good use, however, educating herself the best she could by reading a lot and paying close attention to her learned fellow Nazgul.

Motivation: To find the Ruling Ring, and to find a Silmaril. What she intends to do with the Ruling Ring should she ever find it, remains to be told.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

Ahhh, so the bloated thing was not a nazgul. Be careful then, when you refer to "other nazgul", if you are NOT one of us.

Good point.

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

About your character. Do you REALIZE, that the only responce the bloated thing will get from the ringwraiths in the present situation is an ugly end? We can come and kill you if you so wish. We can ignore you completely.

Yes, you have the complete freedom to do either of those things. I expect I would use my enormous horses to escape from you if you tried to kill me, but on the other hand, what with all this fighting, I might just let you have it your own way.

You can ignore me or try to kill me; that's of course your privilege. Or you can at least hear my character out and then ignore or kill him. That might be more intelligent of the Nazgul than a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy. Plus it would be nicer to me . And you still could keep your right to kill me afterward, of course.

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

But then Val's soldiers will shoot you and your orc and your mutant horses on sighting. Your character is short-lived anyway. Do you not see it?

Not really (taps around on the sidewalk with his stick for a moment, and adjusts his sunglasses). It might happen that way . . . or it might not. Val can make his own decisions regarding killing me. I've dressed up my orc so nicely though, who would kill such a plainly decent chap?

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

Why won't you READ the thread at last and pick someone decent? Val's adviser, Earniel's sweetheart, a Governor of Tharbad, a city whore, a mad elf, a street cat, you name it?

Thanks for the ideas, but I really like my current choice of character. You didn't pick someone decent, I might add . You chose a Nazgul, as have several other players here. I just chose some other ugly bad guy that isn't a Nazgul.

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

I hate quarrels. I really do. And I don't want to quit. But I will, if yesterday's situation ever repeats itself.

I'll beat you to it, if I can . The crazy thing is that I think the whole argument is over a misunderstanding. I really feel very misunderstood, at the moment, and I don't like that. I'm just shaking my head, saying, "this is such a stupid argument," because I never intended any of the perceived insults, attacks and unkindness as such. I just want to get along and have fun playing with you all . You do exactly what you want with your character, and I will continue to play mine in my own fashion, though perfectly ready to withdraw anything I post if it offends anyone here.

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

We don't need a gamemaster here. I am used to be my own mistress, thank you. Especially we do not need a "gamemaster" who bangs in, asks in a hurry "what is the time and place?" and then "pulls our threads together".

I have no desire to take away any of your freedom at all, and I am not trying to do that. What I'm trying to do with my blob of a character is construct a new plot idea that people can join or reject as they choose.

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

The Nazgul are well established and taken care of. Soon we will be reunited, believe me. Three have met already, soon there will be more. All goes along the plan.

Sounds good . Continue to enjoy your plan.

Originally Posted by Crazy Squirrel

AND reading BOTH threads before joining is a simple courtesy to the other players, IMHO. Do you agree with me?

I'm afraid that on this point, I don't really agree. The discussion thread is enormous, and I am strapped for time. Reading the whole RPG is one thing, as it has just started and isn't enormously long yet, but the discussion thread is something else again. In all the . . . at least five RPGs I've done, I never have required that anyone joining in read the whole discussion thread first.

[Lotesse]

How about this - all of us who are on board and actively working a new character, put some kind of explanatory biography profile here so we can all very plainly see who's who and what's what?

A Biography Profile

Viniglaen, Nazgul Ringwraith #9

Born and raised in Andulie, Numenor, of unknown lineage & family.

The youngest of the Nine, became a wraith after stealing a ring from a young Numenorian king's safe and then using the ring herself.

Physically: About 5'3", she is by far the tiniest in stature of all the ringwraiths, but what she lacks in height she makes up for in depth of character and passionate intensity. Petite, tomboyish, unusually beautiful yet surprisingly strong, she sports short, sexily tousled hair the rich dark colour of walnut wood, and fiercely brilliant large eyes the colour of a twilight sky peek out from under her wavy, silky bangs. Very white skin; small pink bow-shaped lips.

Emotionally, Intellectually: Moody as all get out, possessing a temper that can match even the Witch King's himself - she is prone to unexpected violent mood swings (rather like someone I know ), but she is highly loyal and enjoys defending the weak from the strong,. In that vein, as much as she steals, she gives away - to her friends and Nazgul "family," with the exception of course being the Ruling Ring and/or a Silmaril, both of which she has high hopes of someday finding.

Skills: Master Thief and Catburglar of all Middle-Earth, her thievery skills are absolutely legendary and unsurpassed, yet her true identity is rarely revealed in the event of an historical heist ever happening. There's a connexion between what she does and the stuff that was in the Barrow Downs, for instance. Viniglaen is impossible to deceive - she's "up on game," I guess you could say. She's extremely gifted , but unfortunately missed out on a classic Numenorian high education, as she was barely 22 years old at the time she became a Nazgul. She has put the ages of time to good use, however, educating herself the best she could by reading a lot and paying close attention to her learned fellow Nazgul.

Motivation: To find the Ruling Ring, and to find a Silmaril. What she intends to do with the Ruling Ring should she ever find it, remains to be told.

[CrazySquirrel]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Yes CS, I have READ yesterday's posts. Yes, I noticed you all got mad, but I don't think it was necesary. I really do not see why you should have gotten so upset, I honestly DON'T. So no, I probably don't know what it's like.

No you don't, because you don't care about us, nazgul Imagine a new player pops up - a bloated, sweating, ugly hug -and declares she is Lady Galadriel herself, came to inspect your kingdom. I bet you will get mad. As for us, we won't be too upset. All is relative, you know.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Lief has admitted he should have read the threads before and clearly indicated that he would pull out if anyone would be leaving over his posts. He offered to fix the situation. He has been friendly about it. Frankly, what more do you want? You can at least show him the same curtesy.

He did so this night, after my declaration. And I am not yet sure he has read the threads by now. I am still here, so I an showing some courtesy. I offered him to pick another character and continue. I clearly explained what we will do with one who gives a "weak nazgul cry" near the place where we are incognito. I also explained what Arnor soldiers will do to him. Honestly, Earniel, could you give ONE reason why Arnor guys won't be shooting immediately?

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I know you don't want any one else to infiltrate in your 'inner nazgul circle' but you can't expect Lief to have known that. You don't want any more nazgul or anything remotely resembling one, FINE, that TELL us. None of us are mind-readers, misunderstanding is bound to happen. Just say so and we look how we can change the situation accordingly.

Once we greeted Lief in the Discussion thread I asked him immediately: are you going to become a nazgul?" (#238). He replied "No, I have other plans" ( #239). If he would have said YES, I would have given him some directions, proposed "vacant" characters and so on. But he said "No". Fine with me. But then this "Thing" gives "a nazgul cry" and thinks it will summon us. What are we supposed to think?

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I never said we needed a gamemaster! Not in this game. Nor did Lief said he would be.

Please reread #268. "I will bring purpose and direction in your game." See my reply #274

[CrazySquirrel]

Ok, Lief, I have read your message. Well, let us hope it was a misunderstanding. If so, I apologize.
Let us see what happens next.

Lotesse, thanks for the Bio, but there has never been any problem with Vivvie.
Thank you and Gordis for support! What do you feel now? Should we resume posting?

[Lotesse]

O.K.! I have some new ideas for Viv and those two Marty&Ray; they seem fun to her - an interesting diversion for her, and I think she'd like to "befriend" them, see what makes them tick...

[CrazySquirrel]

To VIV.

Sure, I look forward to it. But first let's get rid of the Widow. I am not eager to give an interview. Are you? Should we throw her out bodily or attempt somthing more sophisticated, like poisoning?
I feel drained right now, please, post.

And Viv, you should explain your presence in Lil's house somehow, to Ray and Marty. Are you a friend of Lil? or a sweetheart of Five? or Lil's and Five's dunadan cousin- daughter of their late father's brother? (I mean cover story, not the real one)

Where is our Doc, GW? Could you take Five over, perhaps?

and TD?
TD, I believe, Khamul may appear in Lilly's "haunted house in Orrodel" in the late morning. That will be a surprise for Lilly and Five to learn they have an older brother, Professor of oriental languages!