03-27-2006, 03:18 AM | #301 |
Spaceman Spiff
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I took so long to post mine you guys have both posted already.
I'll have to go back and read 'em now. *off he goes*
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03-27-2006, 03:50 AM | #302 | |||||||||||
Elf Lord
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Jesus' disciples were the eyewitnesses of his resurrection. They claimed to have walked around with him after his resurrection, conversed with him and eaten meals with him while he was all the time with them in the body. So these were eyewitnesses who must have been absolutely sure whether what they were seeing was real or fake. Their claims about what experiences they'd had left no room for uncertainty. They were either lying or they were telling the truth that Jesus was alive. Then what did they go and do? They died for their beliefs. All of them died for their belief in Jesus' resurrection except John, who was exiled to a remote island. Lots of people throughout time have died for their beliefs from many religions, but these people died for something they were absolutely certain was either true or a lie. I don't think anyone would die for something they knew to be a lie. Some do die, however, for what they believe to be true. Therefore the disciples were people we know were willing to lay down their lives for something they must have known was true or a lie, and as people do not die for lies, they must have died for what was true. Quote:
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~Lief
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 04:15 AM | #303 | |||||||||
Elf Lord
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It's like saying, "I don't understand atomic physics, so I don't think there should be any atomic physicists." We use light switches without understanding all the inner workings of the lamp technology. We can trust in God without knowing everything about him and all his plans for everything. He gives us what information we need. Furthermore, if God explained everything to us immediately, that would leave nothing for our curiosity, would it? No more puzzles to work out. No more mysteries to plumb the depths of. Quote:
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Evidence that God taught the creature to adapt might exist in knowing the probability that it could have survived on its own. Or eyewitness accounts of miracles might help. There might be other possibilities of evidence too. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 04:17 AM | #304 | |
Elf Lord
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~Lief
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 05:39 PM | #305 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Everyone Just Might Be Wrong
Flying Spaghetti Monster being published
From United Press International March 27, 2006 2:42 PM EST PHOENIX, Mar 27, 2006 (UPI via COMTEX) -- Pastafarianism is hitting the big time with a book on the Flying Spaghetti Monster ready to take its place in U.S. bookstores next to the Bible. Bobby Henderson, who recently moved from Oregon to Arizona, created the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster last year during the height of arguments before the Kansas Board of Education over whether intelligent design should be taught as an alternative theory to evolution in schools. The gospel includes the explanation that the Flying Spaghetti Monster made a few mistakes during the creation of the universe because he imbibed a bit much from heaven's beer volcano. And instead of amen, adherents say r'amen -- after the noodle dish. "I wrote the letter (to the Kansas school board) for my own amusement as much as anything. And it totally snowballed. Some people say I'm going to hell," he told USA Today. The gospels come out Tuesday in paperback.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
03-27-2006, 06:08 PM | #306 |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003
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I guess that's one way to make money on the Kansas debate
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
03-27-2006, 10:18 PM | #307 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Ah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster! I'll have to dig up my Flying Babies story ...
Here's a couple of quick thoughts while I try to catch up with the thread: First of all, the only being that could PROVE that God doesn't exist would, of course, have to be omniscient ... Second: one day, I, as a Christian, will either KNOW that I'm right (if I'm right) or will NOT know if I'm wrong (if I'm wrong). Non-Christians will either KNOW they're wrong (if they're wrong), or will NOT know if they're right (if they're right) I think that's pretty funny!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-29-2006, 12:33 AM | #308 |
"The Bomb"
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Funny you should bring up Pastafarianism, because I just heard about it for the first time in school today coincidentally. Something about stripper factories and a beer volcano in heaven.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
03-29-2006, 01:51 AM | #309 | |||||||||||
"The Bomb"
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Consider abortion for example. Bad. Obviously, bad. How on earth could anyone justify killing their own unborn baby? Here's how: First, someone tells them "it isn't a person yet; it isn't born." (I don't know if that's accurate, but it sure doesn't matter, because putting an end to something that holds the promise of life is exactly the same as putting an end to a life.) Then, still unsure if society will accept them after they have an abortion, they are encouraged "it's your body; do what you want with it." Things like that. A related issue that I feel very strongly about is this "information age" that we're in. People have become so obsessed with the obtaining of information like obscure statistics of politics or sports records, and they're actually able to obtain this information with the click of a mouse, that there's no way they can process it all or prioritize any of it. The result is that we get too much information at once. Things start to seem so common to us that should really never be. I'm talking about desensitization. It sucks. It's important that we keep things simple. Killing is bad, and life is good. Anything in between doesn't matter. Quote:
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conversion disorder- (Freud’s “hysteria,” or “neurotic conversion”) a person’ experiences a change in or loss of physical functioning for which there is no medical explanation >Pilots who bombed North Korea at night often go completely blind at night now. >treatment: -psychotherapy where you’re taught what is wrong with you -physical therapy of the bodypart affected -exposure therapy where you are tricked into using your bad bodypart -drug therapy which lessens the symptoms Quote:
All of the above explanations were off the top of my head (well, except the one that's right from my psych. notes), and by no means athoritative. I hate having to sound like I'm picking at straws because I generally resent hoax and conspiracy theories and such things for being so corny. Stranger things have happened, I'm sure, that I could never hope to explain. I do know for sure though that water can come from desert stone sometimes. IIRC, it was discovered accidentally within the past several years when a guy was walking uphill in some sandy region and putting his weight on his staff. It broke through a thin layer of sandstone, which had apparently formed over many years over a slow underwater stream. Water gushed out and, I'd imagine, surprised him. On prayer and the stigmata: In non-denominational meditation, a person attempts to join their mind, body, and spirit together into one self with nature. Quite often, they do it, and their awareness grows and transcends something. In prayer, this is also the goal, except the pray-er anticipates God, so when they reach that same new level of peace, they immediately claim that it was God they experienced. The more logical claim would be that they just reached a new record for relaxation, but they had their heart set on meeting God. The stigmata might be something similar to conversion disorder. Quote:
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
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03-29-2006, 01:58 AM | #310 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I think it's very interesting that here on earth, you can't prove God's existence, and you can't prove that He doesn't exist. See, the problem goes deeper than knowing if God exists or not. Adam and Eve knew he existed, yet they sinned...
Interesting post, Bomb - I'll have to re-read it tomorrow - too tired tonight...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-29-2006, 02:00 AM | #311 | |
Elf Lord
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I'll respond to your post on the morrow, Bombadillo! Thanks for a very decent reply . And I'm really enjoying discussing these things with you too, Faramir.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-29-2006, 02:03 AM | #312 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, I certainly agree there is a lot of evidence (as opposed to proof), that's why I'm a Christian. I believe the evidence falls strongly in favor of, first, the existence of a God, and second, that the God who exists is the one described in the Bible.
But I think it's interesting that it can't be proven ... and I think one good outcome of this is that it makes people think ... which is good!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-29-2006, 02:08 AM | #313 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-29-2006, 02:14 AM | #314 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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The question is, could an omniscient being PROVE that God doesn't (or, for that matter, does) exist, or would he merely know it? Where's the syllogism?
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-29-2006, 02:20 AM | #315 | ||
Spaceman Spiff
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I'm enjoying our discussion too Lief.
I just wish I could put my thoughts into words as well as bombadillo does. I still need to go back and respond to some of the earlier post of ours. I will get to it though. But...why I'm here I'd like to bring up some of the recent things you and Rian said. Quote:
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03-29-2006, 02:25 AM | #316 | ||
"The Bomb"
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But where was I? Right, I guess I can understand why nihilism is so depressing now that I'm writing about it. When you realize that everything is pointless, you grow very lazy and literally just wait for death, understanding that there's nothing else of substance to do. This is where the boredom gets dangerous. You begin to wonder if the wait is worth it, or if you should kill yourself. I think most people at this point snap. They could go totally bonkers, and perhaps, but not necessarily, actually commit suicide. Or, they might retreat back to religion and force themselves to forget what a horrid experience that was thinking outside the box. I thought perhaps my seemingly contradictory messages of "nothing matters" and "it's important to be good" would need explanation. It seems like only a matter of time before someone points them out anyway. Well, I just explained the danger of living with "nothing matters" as a motto. To avoid the temptation of suicide, you have to do something with your life. Even if you know there's nothing for it, you must occupy your mind. Basically, you have two choices: good stuff and bad stuff. Seeing as good stuff brings more lasting happiness and stability, I think that's the way to go. And you don't need a God to walk that path either. EDIT: Big-time cross-post again. But I learned my lesson. From now on I'm gonna use Word to write such long replies. *goes back and reads missed posts*
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 03-29-2006 at 02:27 AM. |
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03-29-2006, 02:26 AM | #317 | |||
Elf Lord
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It'll take a very long time to do your post justice. You ask such critically important, really good questions; those questions are absolutely essentially important. This one I will have to save for tomorrow. Perhaps R*an can do better than me at being concise.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-29-2006, 02:38 AM | #318 | |||
"The Bomb"
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EDIT:I must retire. I wish I could stay up to participate, esspecially while reactions to my posts are being typed up, but you know how it is when school starts in six hours.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 03-29-2006 at 03:05 AM. |
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03-29-2006, 02:42 AM | #319 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I got 100% Chalcedonian. Good boy, pongo.
Did you see the Calvinist v. Arminian quiz? Responses were funny as I'll get out.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-29-2006, 02:48 AM | #320 | |
Elf Lord
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. . . I'm still working on my response .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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