Religious Knowledge Thread

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by TinuvielChild
Question of Bible preference for the various Christians here:

KJV or NRSV?

Since I'm Catholic, I use the Catholic Bible...here in the US it's The New American Bible I think

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
It's nice to have your own, tho, so you can write notes in it! (example - 'really need to work on this!' And I date my notes, and it's neat to look back and see that God HAS worked on things!

It took me a while to actually get the nerve up to write in a Bible but once I figured out that it's there to help us, I started, and it's really neat - makes it very personal, and helps you to re-find verses that you like if you've underlined them, etc. But I always do it semi-reverently

When I was in school, we would highlight passages and stuff in Religion class. Sometimes I go back over my old religion notes and to see why I highlighted certain passages.

[markedel]

Kabbalah is just mysticism-mysticism is interesting and can be relevant, but I don't see mysticism as independent from its parent religion, mysticism without the rest of the religion becomes devoid of meaning.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I think we may be misunderstanding one another: when I say, "believe in it", I mean, believe that it is real, not believe in it religiously, which it sounds like to me is what you are saying.

[markedel]

Oh-well Kabbalah isn't "real," all religions have mystical elements, they are part of the "package" as it were. Everyone approaches religion differently-Judaism has tended to de-emphasize its mystical side.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by markedel
Oh-well Kabbalah isn't "real," all religions have mystical elements, they are part of the "package" as it were. Everyone approaches religion differently-Judaism has tended to de-emphasize its mystical side.

I agree...in certain countries (like Columbia) Catholicism is much more mystical than it is here in the USA.

[Millane]

hmmm well maybe some of you religious smarty pants can answer my question... i read something in some Church of Satan crap that there is not one thing in the bible that praises intelligence, well ive never actually been bothered to sit down and read it but im sure that somewhere there would be something???

[markedel]

Er you're wrong. At least I know there's a blessing you're supposed to say when you meet scholarly folk, and I'm sure the rabbis found biblical backing to it considering how studying is commanded by God and all that.

[Millane]

ohhh yeah sorry i found the quote and it was meaning the gospels... anyway if its wrong blame Bertrand Russell - "Has Religion Made Useful Contributions to Civilisation"

As far as i know, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

"religious smarty pants"? Hmm...wonder if someone dislikes those who believe in a greater power?

I remember somewhere it says that My (God's) people die for lack of knowledge, and Proverbs speaks much of knowledge and wisdom.

Running a quick search in the gospel, I find a few things which may be relevant.

Matthew 14:35
And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent out into all that country round about, and brought unto him all that were diseased

So, when the people had knowledge of Jesus, they were able to bring their sick to be healed. Not very good one, eh?

Luke 11:52
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered

This one is pretty self-explanatory.

Luke 1:76-77
And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; 77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins

And John the Baptist was appointed by God to give knowledge of the Christ to the people of Israel.

I think the second one is really the clincher.

I'm curious: is this Modern Satanism, or "traditional" Satanism?

Here are a few Catholic questions. Don't worry, no Bible required.
1. What exactly is a monsignor? And did I spell it right?
2. What are those scarf-like things that priests drape over their necks called?

[markedel]

That is argumably not scholarly knowledge or wisdom-just knowing Jesus and his message. Entirely different things. Not that I believe the gospel somehow disapproves of intellectual power, but those quotes did not prove it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes, I said those weren't good quotes. Tho' the middle one seems to me to be speaking of intelligent-type knowledge.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
[BHere are a few Catholic questions. Don't worry, no Bible required.
1. What exactly is a monsignor? And did I spell it right?
2. What are those scarf-like things that priests drape over their necks called? [/B]

ok...a monsignor (which by the way means my lord...I think it's French) is basically a title used in adressing those priests who have recieived certain papl honors...in other words, it is used for those priests who have been given some sort of recognition...it is simply honorary and carries no specific jurisdiction with it.

I know I've benn told what the different kinds of vestments that priests wear have been called but I can't remember them right now..I'm looking it up but it's taking forever

[Millane]

I'm curious: is this Modern Satanism, or "traditional" Satanism?

modern satanism... i discount the existance of Satan just as i do of God (meaning the Infinite power)

"religious smarty pants"? Hmm...wonder if someone dislikes those who believe in a greater power?

ohhh nah it was actually commending all you "religious smarty pants" for your knowledge... and no, just for the record i dont dislike people who beleive in a greater power they can think what they want... in essence like the Church of Satan believes i am God... not a bad set up i reckon...
as for your examples i guess it just comes down to your definition of knowledge... i wouldnt count knowledge of Jesus as true knowledge.. but again beleive as you will

[Gwaimir Windgem]

As I said before, the first and third weren't really good examples, but the second really seemed to me to be speaking of "knowledge" for the sake of "knowledge".

I read up a bit on Modern Satanism: didn't really like what I saw. Everything I read was rather hypocritical. And there were of course other things I disliked about it.

[Millane]

didnt you.. ohhh well each to his own but what i have read about it, i thought seemed very intelligent and seemed good to me. i just dont see putting faith in something that doesnt exist... at least i know i exist, im responisble for the things i do and im not guided by a supreme power...
i also liked how people arent distinguished by race, age etc but by intelligence... if you dont mind my asking what didnt you like about it... would i be right in assuming you are a christian?

[TinuvielChild]

Seeing as I haven't read up on Modern Satanism, could someone please explain it to me?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Indeed I am.

Well, the biggest thing was that it taught tolerance. From what I heard, the name was chosen to aggravate and intimidate Christians. Not very tolerant, IMO.

I discussed the matter at some length with someone on another board who was considering joining them. Here's the MS definition of a few things that I read from some things he copy and pasted from a site (I think it was www.modernsatanism.com):

Modern Satanism - "To the Satanist, it is unnecessary to sell your soul to the Devil or make a pact with Satan. This threat was devised by Christianity to terrorize people so they would not stray from the fold." [ The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey] SATAN is a Hebrew word meaning the opposer or the accuser. SATAN is a bad guy the Christian church made to keep their flock from running astray. We, Satanists, kept the name SATAN in Satanism ONLY for shock factor, for the sheer delight in the fear of the word to the Christians. Modern day Satanism is NOT Satan/Devil worshipping. Satanism is taking responsibility for your own actions, not some sky fairy.

Here's the source for the bit about why they choose the name. Also, Christianity most definitely teaches taking responsibility for your actions. Free Will and choosing to do right is a major theme. I noticed it was mentioned both by you and the article. Of course, I know Modern Satanists don't believe in the Devil, but I still find it ironic how often "The Devil made me do it" is said, as opposed to "God made me do it." Also, the bit about "sky fairy" doesn't sound very tolerant, to me.

Satan - To the Modern Satanist, Satan is a MYTH. The being/deity/entity "Satan" was made up by the Christians to take the fall for their sins, pleasure, wrong doings, etc... They needed someone to be their scape goat. When Christianity came into play, the EXISTING GODS of the Egyptians, Indian, Greeks, etc.. were all turned into Devil's. The Literal being/deity/entity simply DOES NOT exist. I am sure you can ask a Christian and they would say he exists, something has to be the reasoning behind their fears. "Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!" [The Nine Satanic Statements by Anton LaVey]

This is not true. Firstly, Satan is NOT supposed to take the fall for our wrongdoings. He is the Father of Sin, but we always have the choice on whether to sin or not. It is always entirely our responsibility. Also, the bit about Existing Gods is not entirely true. While some gods were demonized, some were, I believe, made parts of Christianity; if not explicitly (which I think there are a few instances), certainly in things as taking Pagan holidays and giving them a Christian theme. Also, possibly the who canonization and saint deal may be a way of making the transition from Paganism to Catholicism easy (I'm not sure about this, I'm still waiting on Scriptural basis for it). But Satan existed long before Christianity became a dominant religion; indeed, Christ himself spoke of him. I think he is a part of Judaism, of which Christianity is, historically, an offshoot, tho' I'd have to ask markedel about that.

The Devil - Another name for Satan, and something we're always accused of worshiping. I might be a horny little devil, but surely I do NOT worship The devil. hehe.

Well, if you call yourselves SATANISTS, that's bound to happen...

Lucifer - The name of a said "angel" who was cast out of Heaven by god himself for questioning his actions. Surely someone with a mind of their own would question something if it did not seem right to them. Surely someone with wisdom would know the outcome of certain things before they are done. Is it wrong to question your superiors? Is it wrong to think freely, or to think differently? This is also another name for Satan. He has many, many names the Christians have chosen for him. blah

This is naught but false propaganda. Lucifer did NOT question God: he aspired to cast him down from the heavens and replace him. Also, we didn't choose the names.

To be continued....

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hello, TC. Looks like I'm doing that a bit right now. After this, I'll post some other stuff about it.

God - I am mine own GOD! I am using this topic however to address the Christian god, so, lately I have heard so much about him it makes me sick. I am more scientific in nature than spiritual, and if I can not smell, touch, see, hear, or taste it... it does not exist. Every day there are "miracles" of life happening this guy gets credit for. Ever heard of chance? Circumstance? Fate? I am sorry but breathing is not a miracle, it is a natural function of the human body. I hear this guy loves everyone. And will forgive you for all of your sins. I bet we Satanists really piss him off every now and then. I'd like to know I am the thorn in someone's side from time to time. This is another being, deity, force, spirit which simply DOES NOT exist. I do not have blind faith, and frown at the masses who simply do.

I could go on for ages about this one, but I won't. Simply:

Tolerant.

Jesus - The son of god. "Pallid Incompetence Hanging On A Tree", [Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible] The way the Christians speak of this guy you would think he was Satan himself! The end of the world is coming, and he is going to be their savior. To bring them to the promised lands. To kill each and every Christian on earth and take them with him to their heaven. They are the ones who need help, who need to be saved, not I. To the Modern Satanist, Heaven and Hell is a state of mind, not a place of being.

I will say very little about this. Only that it is believed that the rapture will be the taking up of Christians bodily, not killing them. And also to note the grammar in the last sentence.

Christianity - A true DEATH CULT if there ever was one. I have never read, witnessed, nor heard of another CULT so obsessed with death. I hear all the time how their messiah is coming to bring them into heaven. Friends, there is only one way to get into their heaven, through death. I have to admit, I am amused by some of the ways the Christians live...for example: They lust about all week, and fulfill their carnal desires only to show up on Sunday and beg forgiveness. If you are going to do something you enjoy, that makes you feel good, and you want to continue to do...why do you need to beg forgiveness???

Again, death is not the only way to get to heaven. There are recorded examples of people who have been caught up into heaven, without death. I certainly do agree about the example, though. That is mere hypocrisy. But the last sentence I most definitely do not agree with, but that has to do with my religion, and believing that fulfillinf every lust and indulging every desire, and all-around self-indulgence is not the way to go.

Catholicism - A Confusing Religion. Same twists and turns as Christianity, with a few more rules to break. And their prayer services really floor me... Sit, Stand, Kneel... ahhhh. Done in Latin at times...that part is cool. If you have god in your heart, and can talk to god through prayer, Why would you need to go confess to a priest? Whats the middle man for? I think the church has lost it's way and become a large monopoly. If you have faith, you dont need a church. The movie STIGMATA hit the nail on the head, You don't need a building to have faith. The church is no longer needed, and are only there to take your money. This should be in the next topic... so, I digress.

The priest confession part was addressed earlier by our resident Catholic expert. But I definitel agree about the Latin part. Also, the part about not needing a church is unbiblical, but one cannot know if that comment was meant to be based on Christian beliefs or Modern Satanist.

The Church - A building, isn't it? surely you jest. The church is even worse than the United States Government, when it comes to lying, cheating, stealing, and murder. The church was built on the premise that the flock need a place to go to worship. They collect your money and use it for their own needs, what ever they may be. If you believe in something, whether it is god, or nature, or Satan, would you need a building to worship them in? For having a god that's "omnipotent" why would you need to erect thousands of buildings to pray to him? It's a simple money laundering scam. The church and its tax-free status, and gambling even, within it's own walls. The best scam going on to date!

Again, the Bible teaches that believers should gather together in groups: this is practiced today with churches and congregations. As to the rest, let me just say: Tolerant.

continued...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Here's a description in the words of the person I discussed it with:

well, "classic" satanism is the one ppl commonly acknowledge... devil worshiping, human sacrifice... that kind of crap. This is VERY different from modern satanism. in fact, the word "satanism" in the modern one was chosen only to shock, and to annoy christians a lil bit, as modern satanism is pretty much opposite to much of the thing christianism say. but attenction!! it is NOT killing ppl or harming them or anythin, not at all!!! it is respect in other ppl, love to those who deserve it, and revenge to those who deserve it. it is taking responsibility for my own actions, and not some sky fairy. it says that everyone is his own God, and every human is equally important. it says a lot of other stuff which i believe right and i think it is shareble. it was created by Anton Szandor La Vey. if u want to know more, and it is sure something interesting, go to this site:

As I pointed out before, many of these things actually do agree with Christianity.

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Anton Szandor LaVey, Church of Satan

all of these rules are right and shareable.


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1) Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!

2) Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3) Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4) Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5) Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!

6) Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7) Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all!

8) Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9) Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

much of this is right too.

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to be continued...