Writing using Tengwar characters

[Rían]

Yes, please do! I've never been stumped on a translation before - I hate to think that (1) they just did random characters, or (2) my brain is starting to go to heaven before the rest of me!

OK, Cass, here's some good posts for you to check: I'll give the times, but you might need to adjust for your timezone - mine is GMT-8.

pg. 1 : 4th post (9-14, 11:54 am) shows the best 2 links, IMO
pg. 1 : last post (9-15, 2:09 pm) my suggestions how to memorize in groups (I think EXTREMELY helpful)

pg. 2 : 9-16, 9:08 am / 9-16, 10:09 pm / 9-17, 6:57 am / 9-17, 9:53 pm : has misc. info

pg. 4 : 9-25, 6:07 pm / 9-27, 5:06 pm, 5:18 pm, 6:04 pm : has examples

Well, that should get you started - keep us informed of your progress

[Ms. Undomial]

Hello Everybody! I will be watching the ex of fotr tonight so I might be able to tell you what it reads later tonight or early tomorrow.

Guess What?? it just so happens that Rian and I live in the same state! you know what is even cooler? we live within 5 min of eachother and my bro and her son are playing soccer with the same school! and, we might meet at the starbucks in Simi. if you want to come you are invited! I will give directions as soon as we get the times all figured out! talk to you later!!!

[cassiopeia]

Thanks Rian, I'll try to find those posts. I only read the first few pages of this thread, but I like the link you gave on the first page, I use that as my cheat sheet. I did watch the FOTR again (oh, it is so hard watching Aragorn! ) and I did see it had Gil on the grave. I've only got the video version, but hopefully soon I will have the DVD.

[Rían]

Yes, I like the first link the best, too. I printed out the table on the first link, then I took some info from the second link and supplemented the table (for example, I wrote the word samples next to the letter symbols). What do you think of the whole memorize by group idea? Does that work for you? IOW, the whole thing that the closed bow element signals a closed mouth, etc., and that the 'p'-looking group is a logical sound grouping.

I just had the directors' commentary on while I was doing paperwork, so I could listen while I worked. It was really fun! I had no idea it was even there until azalea made a comment about it in another thread. There is also a cast commentary, which is even more fun! I think it was the first time they had seen the extended version, because they say things like "oh, look, they put that scene back in!". Unfortunately, Viggo wasn't available, I guess, because he is the only fellowship member not in the commentary group . The DVD is well worth it! I hope you can get it soon.

[Ms. Undomial]

I looked at the menu page and translated it all. it is not english!! I tried to translate the runes at the top of the menu page, but I don't reconize the first rune! I was even using my cheet page! grr.... annoying.

[TinuvielChild]

You know what? I think they just took some random gibberish and put it in Tengwar. Unless someone can make sense out of it in Quenya mode, then translate it out of Quenya...this is all speculation, as I don't have the DVD myself.

[Rían]

That's so frustrating, considering how careful they were in the movie with languages, etc. I've tried both English mode and Quenya mode, and I can't make sense of it either way!

I just listened to the effects team commentary last night, and they said they actually wrote out runes in Balin's tomb area referring to names and places, etc. in Tolkien's work. Then some Elvish language expert came by and said that "Joe was here" was written there and he was really miffed. They looked EVERYWHERE, very carefully, all over Balin's tomb area and couldn't find it. Then it turned out that one of the staff was just joking and had told the language expert that - he hadn't really seen it after all!

With all that care and concern, you think that they would at least make the Tengwar on the DVD make some sense!! At the very least, they could have just copied the FoTR title page Tengwar, or just wrote "this is the main menu for the dvd" or something!!

[Ms. Undomial]

Yea I know. they should have made it say something! like: "you are reading Tengwar! Congradulations!" oh well.... GUess what? I found the old TTT Trailer in the ex DVD!!! it is really cool!!

[Rían]

Hey, cass - any updates on Tengwar for us? Stick with it, I think you'll really enjoy it!

[Celebrian]

Thanks for the posts you mentioned earlier. They had some useful information. I like your way of memorizing in groups, because even if I get it wrong it will be similar enough that I can tell what I was trying to write!

[Rían]

Hey, that's true! I didn't think of it that way, but that's a good point. I know I usually mix up 'd' and 'b', and I just say 'd' or 'b', and if my lips touch, (as in 'b') I know to close the bow.

[cassiopeia]

I'm trying to study some tengwar everyday. I too get confused between some letters - like if the bow is open or closed. I also get confused about tengwar that are sounds. For example there is a tengwar symbol for ng, but I would probably write the tengwar symbols for n and g separately. I wish I could write some tengwar and put it as an attatchement - but I don't have a scanner. I just write down random words or sentances, I think that is the best way for me to learn. Practice makes perfect! Rian (or anyone else) - can you read/write it fluently? I don't suppose you can read/write it as well as English.

[TinuvielChild]

Not quite as fluently, but almost. I can write it almost as fluently, but not quite as quickly, because I actually take the time to make my handwriting look nice in Tengwar, which I don't in English. It takes me a little longer to convert out of Tengwar, though.

[Rían]

I'm the same as TC - I write quite fluently now (but remember, I've been at it a couple of months!) - as fast as I can neatly print, with only occasional pauses for d/b, which is my particular problem area. I can read 2-letter words quickly, but all others I pretty much have to translate letter by letter (I sound like I'm slower than TC at this part). But for me, it's the writing part that is enjoyable. I usually just toss out my writing when I'm done with it.

I found the samples link - go to the second link from the 4th post on the first day, go to the bottom of the link, press the "bac kto the Tengwar document index" button, then page down to the "Tengwar Examples" section, and there's lots of good examples for you.

Yes, the two-consonant things take a bit of getting used to, but you'll catch on there, too. Also, the special characters for "the", "of", "and", and "of the". TC caught me once writing out "of" instead of using the special symbol. I now use 'th' instead of 't' and 'h', and "ng" instead of 'n' and 'g', quite consistently. A good thing to remember is "-ing" endings - the 'i' vowel mark over the 'ng' symbol. And since 'th' is often at the beginning of words, that gets easy to remember after awhile.

Wow, it's late! I better turn in now - good luck! (A funny note - I do part-time engineering consulting at a military radar company while the kids are in school. I'm really careful to take all of my Tengwar doodles with me and not throw them out in the trash there - security people might freak out if they saw it!)

[TinuvielChild]

I remember looking at one of my early Tengwar writings that I found buried in my binder the other day, and thinking, "What the heck is that first word???", because I had accidentally written the "the" symbol, with an 'e' after it! No clue what I was thinking.

RÃ*an, that's so funny! Maybe you should write, "Hello. I'm not planning to take over the world, nope, not at all. Not one bit." on a piece of paper in Tengwar and stick it in a trash can there. See if

1. anyone notices
2. anyone can translate it
3. anyone does anything about it

It might be amusing! Of course, if it would get you in trouble, then obviously don't do it, but, hey.


Oh, and I've been doing Tengwar almost as long as RÃ*an here has, but not quite. She was doing it before she got on Entmoot (is that right? I think so...), and I only started after she posted the shibby links at the beginning of this thread.

[Rían]

Yes, that would be funny, but not worth the possible consequences! One doesn't fool around with the military.... I think I'll stick with leaving a piece of paper with Tengwar writing at a table at Starbucks with Ms. U. watching to see what people say

I had half-heartedly started memorizing Tengwar before Entmoot, but really got going after I started here.

What's "shibby"?

[Telperion]

Yeah! I've finally found this thread! My sister (Celebrian) found it a couple weeks ago and she has been going nuts over it. Now, whenever she has free time, this is all she does.
In relation to the suggestion of leaving a piece of paper with Tengwar on it in a public place, (does that make sense?) my sister has already accidently done so. We are renting part of a house in Fernie B.C. out and we went to visit it last week. My sister had been writing Tengwar in the car and, when we got into the house, left it on the table. Our renters found it and thought it was in Japenese.
My sister has also had another encounter with someone reading Tengwar she had written. This person guessed that it was Russin or Polish and when he learned that it wasn't he guessed orcish. It's pretty amazing that he guessed something that close considering that he had never read LOTR.

[Rían]

Hey, Telperion, thanks for posting! It's so fun hearing from other Tengwar writers Are you memorizing it yourself? You and your sister could certainly write notes to each other - how nice! I just usually toss mine, I have no one to give it to (except now that Ms. U and I are going to meet at archery, I can give her a note )

How interesting about the Japanese/Russian/Polish/orkish! To me, it looks more middle-eastern, like Farsi. Japanese and Russian seem more angular to me. Have you two checked out the samples that TC and I have posted? We really like how you can make it your own individual style, as long as the basic elements (bow and stem) are recognizable.

That reminds me, cass, I was going to ask you if you had seen the attachments we had posted several pages back. There's probably 5 or 6, along with "spoiler-ed" out translations. You were mentioning that you wanted things to translate.

Well, keep posting, everyone! I think I'll write something new and scan it in, I haven't done that for awhile.

[Rían]

OK, Cass (and others), re the attachments - they start on page 4 and go for several pages. It's fun to see the different styles of writing for the different people

[cassiopeia]

I've translated the tengwar on the title page of The Treason of Isengard, HoME book 7. Starting from the top:

The treason of isengard. The story of the fellowship of the ring. Traced from rivendell through moria to the day of its ending at Calembel* beside anduin the great river. Then told of the return of gandalf mithrandir. Of the meeting of the hobbits with fangorn. And of the war upon the riders of rohan by the traitor saruman

*I'm not sure of this word. It has a symbol at the start which I don't recognize. But I found calenbel in the book, so I assumed it was correct.

If anyone has translated this, I would like to know if they got what I got. The funny thing was my sister caught me doing it and said I was addicted, so now I think I will do it in private.